Bernie Borges [00:00:00]:
Lauren Greif, welcome to the Midlife Fulfill Podcast, a maximum episode.
Loren Greif [00:00:06]:
Welcome to you, and thank you so much for having me, Bernie.
Bernie Borges [00:00:09]:
Oh, absolutely. Thank you for being here. Looking forward to our conversation. You know, I’ve been covering this topic a little more and more, and I wanna continue to cover this topic. So first, Lauren, let me do a little introduction of you for my listener. You are the founder and CEO of Portfolio Rocket. You’re also an executive career strategist within the context of your company. And since 2020, Portfolio Rocket has helped over 400 executives over the age of 40 transform their careers, their lives, and really just themselves, and it’s a valuable service.
Bernie Borges [00:00:45]:
You are also the host of Career Blast and a Half, a podcast, which I’m a listener of, and you do a great job on that, again, covering this all important topic. And so I invited you here today to really have a conversation around this topic of career development, career transition over the age of 40, and really in today’s world, Lauren, like, the dynamics of what’s going on in today. And so since we are here in early twenty twenty five, I thought I would ask you. So what do folks over the age of 40 who are interested or out of necessity going through a career transition, what should they be thinking about? Big question. Right? Big, big question.
Loren Greif [00:01:31]:
It is a big question, and, I do have some big answers. But aside from that, I think that we wanna also set up a little bit of a playing field because something happened as a result of the pandemic that shifted a lot of what is now the the job market for those who are 40 and older. So in the pandemic, it was the first time that more of the older workers were let go before some of the younger workers. So prior to that, those were the that those are the legacy, you know, institutional knowledge holders of companies. And then there was a dramatic shift. And so most of those older folks who found themselves on the market were also challenged with ageism. So we have talked about this. We know that ageism exists, and we we’re not here to say that it doesn’t.
Loren Greif [00:02:30]:
What I’m here to say is, yes, it does exist, and I can’t make it go away, but there are a lot of things that you can do, especially in your job search, to mitigate it and to not let that be the reason why you are not seen as viable or, relevant or hireable. So I wanted to just lay some groundwork because I think it’s important to know that, hey. You’re not crazy. You’re not imagining it. The perception of you as somebody in corporate America or even just somebody maybe even taking, contract work might not be what you had always imagined it to be or or or understood it to be. And what is happening in 2025 is a lot of confluences of different elements. And where this all shakes out is in about three or four, depending on how far you wanna split it, three or four different overarching themes. The first one that I that I wanna touch on is how to package your deep experience.
Loren Greif [00:03:47]:
So why I talk about this is because the more relevant you are, the less ageism has a chance to let its ugly head rear itself.
Bernie Borges [00:04:00]:
Mhmm. I like your word package, Lauren. I I like that. There’s a that’s a visual. Right? So how do you create this package of your total experience? Go ahead.
Loren Greif [00:04:09]:
Completely. And what I wanna also just raise my hand for is that saying your experience isn’t enough. Right? We know that with, you know, age and older workers, you will have pattern recognition. You will have wisdom to and and good judgment. You will be able to bring in things that somebody who is at a different time or generation won’t, but you have to translate that for them. Experience in and of itself does not define the strain and the the the, flavor of what it is and what it means to a future employer. So if it is pattern recognition, now the next step is to actually spell it out. And I want as much as possible to thread a a metric in there.
Loren Greif [00:05:04]:
Metrics are are validating. They are also easy ways to translate a lot of information or telegraph a lot of information very quickly. It also changes things. If you say a lot, is that 2%? Is that 20%? Is that 200%? So it’s very important to get as specific as you can about what your experience means to your, you know, end user buyer decision maker, even that person in a networking conversation who’s gonna put their reputation on the line and potentially make an introduction on your behalf.
Bernie Borges [00:05:44]:
And and when you say use metrics and package yourself, you’re you’re talking about your LinkedIn profile, your resume, maybe if you have a website, if you have a website, which a lot of people don’t. Just is that you know, are there any other ways that that folks can be
Loren Greif [00:06:00]:
packaging themselves? Absolutely. So what is a mark what is a, you know, a job search? It’s essentially your marketing campaign for you to achieve your goals, what you’re worth, and where what impact you’re gonna have on your next company. So every single touch point can make a difference. Voice notes, huge. You know, your subject lines, you know, your or your PS on your on your follow ups or your emails. Weave them into your networking conversations. Use them in your LinkedIn posts, not just your profiles. So what I wanna also suggest is part of this new process of being in the marketplace is also a requirement to exercise your level of creativity and innovation.
Loren Greif [00:06:52]:
And so in any given situation, you might wanna consider it a pallet. So here I have this blank email. What will I do with it? How can I break the monotony of the endless amounts of email in somebody else’s InBid? How do I move away from what I call same script? I am a leader with twenty years of proven experience.
Bernie Borges [00:07:15]:
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Loren Greif [00:07:16]:
As soon as I hear that, I think you’re not relevant because I’ve heard it so many times. And so twenty years just tells me that you’ve accumulated that that time period in the market, but that doesn’t necessarily sway me one way or the other because if you are of a certain age, everyone has that.
Bernie Borges [00:07:37]:
Right. What about the role of of video? I I don’t see enough people who are willing to fire up that camera, put the lights on, like, you and I have lights on. We’re we’re in our home offices, and we have our lights on because without it, you know, these videos by the way, listener reminds you that you can watch this episode on YouTube. But, you know, just recording videos that help to communicate the package that you’re describing, Lauren.
Loren Greif [00:08:07]:
I’m so glad you mentioned that. So that is a winning subtle, nuanced, and, very impactful strategy. Number one, it says that you’re up on technology.
Bernie Borges [00:08:21]:
Mhmm.
Loren Greif [00:08:21]:
Right? It says, oh my god. Like, I we use Loom videos, Loom, l o o m, in emails. We use them for follow ups. We use them for thank you notes. We use them when we’re networking. All of our clients do. Why? Top of mind, and, also, I can feel your vibe. It doesn’t feel like just another something something.
Loren Greif [00:08:44]:
And the good news is because so few people do it, it automatically sets you apart. Because how many video video emails are you getting today?
Bernie Borges [00:08:54]:
Exactly.
Loren Greif [00:08:55]:
One out of a hundred?
Bernie Borges [00:08:56]:
Right.
Loren Greif [00:08:57]:
So you’re looking for those places where you can, respectfully disrupt. You know, disruption is your friend. More of the same is what my dear friend Kevin d Turner would say, personal branding. And we wanna we wanna stay away from that because, again, you’re in a very crowded marketplace. So it’s incumbent upon you to use tools, especially the free ones. Anybody can use LinkedIn voice notes. Anybody can use LinkedIn videos in the direct messages. And, those are powerful.
Loren Greif [00:09:32]:
I I shot off probably I think it was, like, 43 thank yous over the holidays over video. Every single person returned my video.
Bernie Borges [00:09:41]:
Yeah.
Loren Greif [00:09:42]:
Not not necessarily with a video in return, but my point is they saw it.
Bernie Borges [00:09:46]:
Yep.
Loren Greif [00:09:47]:
They acknowledged it.
Bernie Borges [00:09:48]:
Yep.
Loren Greif [00:09:48]:
Yes. Sure. It took a little bit more time. But if you’re building a relationship, that’s that’s your capital right there.
Bernie Borges [00:09:56]:
Yeah. I wanna come back to the voice note one because, a, a lot of people don’t even know that that’s possible on LinkedIn. Currently and I don’t know if they’re gonna change this because it’s been this way since day one. It’s only available on the mobile app. They for some reason, they don’t make it available on LinkedIn desktop, so it’s mobile only. But as you know, Lauren, you can tap this little button and record a voice message to anybody you’re connected to, and very few people use it. So anyone who’s maybe a little reticent to get on video, because a lot of people are, the voice approach is so much easier and you still stand out.
Loren Greif [00:10:32]:
Yes. 85% of LinkedIn users are typically using LinkedIn on their mobile device. I know that there is a workaround to do it on desktop. I just think it’s easier anyway because you could do it obviously on the go. You have a whole minute. And I really like these two because they are so casual. You you can just say, hey. You know, I have this link I’m sending you.
Loren Greif [00:10:58]:
I saw this article. It reminded me of you. No need to replies. Have a great day. People are like, wow. Thanks. Right? You were thinking of me. How easy is that? So I I do love that feature.
Loren Greif [00:11:11]:
And, also, let’s face it. There’s something about hearing somebody’s voice that changes everything.
Bernie Borges [00:11:17]:
Yep. You
Loren Greif [00:11:18]:
could hear their smile. You can hear their enthusiasm. You could hear, you know, the the connection. And and people hire people. They don’t they don’t hire they don’t hire, you know, profiles or resumes.
Bernie Borges [00:11:30]:
Yeah. Exactly. Laura, I wanna get to a topic that is sort of an elephant in the room, and I know that you’re prepared to talk about it. And that is the role of AI in the context. It’s not only 2025, but you said something earlier that I wanna come back to because it it’s really a key point, and that is that we have a ton of institutional knowledge for those of us over 40 in our career. But AI is relatively new on the scene. I mean, AI is not new. We all know that, but it’s only like, November 2022 is kinda when, you know, it made its grand entrance with ChatTpT.
Bernie Borges [00:12:03]:
And it’s been growing, as you know, you know, crazy fast. So what’s the role of AI in 2025 for the career transition for those over 40?
Loren Greif [00:12:13]:
Absolutely. So I wanna give the headline first. And the headline first is AI isn’t here to replace you. It’s here to reveal you. I’ll say that again. It’s not here to replace you. It’s here to reveal you. And what that really means is that there are five skills according to, Ahmad Rahman, who is the chief economic officer over at LinkedIn.
Loren Greif [00:12:40]:
Five skills that AI will never be able to replace. He calls them the five c’s, curiosity, communication, collaboration, compassion, and creativity. So while AI is picking up a lot of the busy work and a lot of the automated things that are time sucking out your day, you wanna know and you wanna leverage those five c’s that AI cannot replace. Conversely, you still need to know how AI is going to be working in your favor, and it is it was the number one question in 2024. How are you using AI and how is it is it, you know, being utilized either in your role, in your company, in your industry? So you can expect that will be there. And you do not need to be an AI expert. We’re all pretty much starting at a relatively, you know, novice level. But what I will say is you need to also start treating it not as an additive, as more of a behavioral change.
Loren Greif [00:13:49]:
So this should be something that you are using daily. Daily. And there are hundreds, hundreds, hundreds of AI courses. LinkedIn Learning is is free with premium users. Udemy, all of them, they are they are everywhere. And, again, you do not need to, you know, write code or anything, but prompting, for sure. Basic prompting, you need to know how to save time. You need to also know, you know, that because of AI, your communication skills need to be tight and sharp.
Loren Greif [00:14:28]:
No filler words, really making sure that you are succinct in your language. We we say in our program and what our executives really focus in on is saying less to reach more people in a fewer in fewer amounts of time. Every CEO has less time to reach more people with fewer words.
Bernie Borges [00:14:51]:
Right.
Loren Greif [00:14:51]:
So when you’re interviewing your networking, you’re not gonna have an, you know, an open amount of of time to make your, you know, to have your conversation, to get your key value proposition, you know, in intact. You need to make those points very succinctly. In a half an hour, a lot of times, we just do an autopsy. We figure, okay. You got, like, six or seven minutes at the beginning, and you got probably another, you know, eight or ten at the back. So what are you saying in the middle? What are you using that time for? Because just like you said to me at the beginning of this podcast, it goes by fast.
Bernie Borges [00:15:28]:
Mhmm. Yep. You know, I I look at AI, and I’ve been seeing this a lot lately. I look at AIs like spreadsheets. Meaning, in our career, we can’t imagine not using a spreadsheet for a variety of different things that we need to accomplish. And I look at AI as like a spreadsheet. And I don’t mean that literally as an apples to apples, obviously. It’s a metaphor.
Bernie Borges [00:15:52]:
Meaning, it’s a tool. Use it for productivity. And just like a spreadsheet, if you have to learn how to use it, learn how to use it. I don’t know every single feature in Excel, Lauren. I don’t know about you. I don’t.
Loren Greif [00:16:08]:
Oh my god. No way. And if I don’t go in, I’ll look it up. I mean Yeah. And that’s I think that that’s really the ideal segue into the next into the next piece. The perception about older workers, right, is that they aren’t tech savvy, number one, and that they are not necessarily agile or adaptable. And this is an area an an era of agility and adaptability. There is no job security that’s gone.
Loren Greif [00:16:40]:
It’s completely gone. Yeah. It also is you know, the the turnover in the c suite is is at its fastest churn rate than it’s ever been, which means that you could be in a company I spoke with somebody this morning, six years and and four restructurings. So every time there’s a restructuring, you’re learning something new. And if you are on the job market and and have been in a company for a considerable period of time, which I define as anything over, you know, three or four years, there is a learning curve to to actually maintain a level of market value that that is required for you to come up to. So that also includes how you are actually going about the process of your job search as much as it is about what you are doing in it. Right? How you are using the time that you have to get the biggest ROI you possibly can from that time period that you are on the market to the time that you would be in your next role.
Bernie Borges [00:17:48]:
Yeah. You said a moment ago, Lauren, that, the perception of older workers is that maybe, you know, we’re not up to snuff on all the latest and greatest tools and technologies and all that. So that brings to mind the topic of skilling and reskilling. So I know that that’s certainly on your radar. So please address that because I know it’s a big topic.
Loren Greif [00:18:09]:
Yes. I actually talked about this, today. So upskilling and reskilling is career survival. It’s it’s this is not like, oh, I think I’ll invest in myself now and, you know, maybe I’ll learn a couple things along the way. Just as a benchmark, it has been and this is going on for decades. It has been advised by the HR, you know, guidelines that every professional invest between 510% of their annual compensation every year to upskilling or reskilling. So most people don’t do that. I get that.
Loren Greif [00:18:47]:
Right? It’s like, oh my god. Why do I have to do that? Isn’t my company responsible for that? Well, I’m not saying that they don’t have any skin in the game. But if you are not employed, you’re not gonna wait because that’s exactly the the information, the skills, and and the momentum and motivation for them to wanna hire you. So you’re gonna you’re responsible for that. You are responsible for upscaling yourself as a professional and maintaining that. This is the way an athlete would be responsible for maintaining their fitness level.
Bernie Borges [00:19:24]:
Mhmm.
Loren Greif [00:19:24]:
Just the way, you know, a doctor would have to go and get, you know, recertified if they change policies or an accountant if they if they change, you know, any kind of tax laws. So this is just part of, you know, good professionalism is to make sure that you are taking good good care of what you need to do so that you can remain, current and relevant in the marketplace and competitive. As far as what is happening too is, as I said earlier, all these things coming together. We got AI coming together at a time when, you know, lots of people are are either coming back in the market. Some people are also being laid off. We saw about 40,000 layoffs between Thanksgiving and Christmas, many of them in the most inhumane ways over text messages or emails, and every industry has its own set of unique challenges. And so what does that mean as we are, you know, in the early stages of 2024 is really making sure that you are upskilling for your industry, specifically upskilling as a job seeker, and also doing what you can. You might take a negotiations class.
Loren Greif [00:20:42]:
You might, you know, do do a deep dive in visual literacy. We know that infographics and being able to represent things well is a very, very powerful skill. Another skill, let’s just call it out, is LinkedIn. Learning how to build your personal brand and your thought leadership is is a timeless skill is a timeless skill and that’s something we a % handle, storytelling. There’s another skill that you’ll never go wrong with because inevitably, you’ll be talking to somebody and you’ll need to actually persuade them to do something, and that’s a powerful medium. And so each and every one of these both have its industry specificity and also a lot of transferable, you know, applications that are really powerful and applicable no matter what age you are. But if you don’t know them at this age, hey. All the power to you.
Loren Greif [00:21:40]:
Let’s go.
Bernie Borges [00:21:41]:
Yeah. Yeah. And as you said earlier, there are a number of places where you can take courses. You mentioned Udemy is one of them. Additionally, I just wanna mention this for the listener. Pick a topic, cybersecurity, AI, whatever. Pick a topic, and you can find podcasts on them. And podcasts are free.
Bernie Borges [00:22:00]:
Right? Whether it’s audio only or on YouTube. So I’m not suggesting that that that podcasts are gonna replace a course that you would take on some place like Udemy, because a course on a place like Udemy is gonna do a deep dive, and it’s a legitimate course. But podcasts are also great, resources for learning. I wanna I wanna shift gears a little bit. We’ve kinda been talking about this, but not specifically around this concept that I’ve heard you talk about, and that is employee value proposition. Would you speak to that?
Loren Greif [00:22:33]:
Sure. So the days the days of planting an employee value proposition as a poster, it still exists, but it’s fading. And why is this fading? Why is why is it more than just a bunch of, you know, platitudes or words that are on a wall? There’s a very, very good business case for it, and it’s called retention. So upskilling and employee value proposition are really by design there to help drive alignment between incoming and and preexisting employees and the values of the organization. And companies know that first of all, it’s it’s something like $25,000 per person to actually replace them. Then that’s fees and so forth for recruiting and lost time and productivity and and ramping that new that new person. So that’s that’s on the conservative end. They don’t wanna incur that.
Loren Greif [00:23:44]:
And why why would they? Why would they want to? That turnover also stalls a lot of the initiatives. It breaks momentum between teams. And so alignment and understanding what their value proposition is as it may or may not align with yours is is critical. It sounds kinda woo, and I get that, but this has been a huge a huge filter and way for our clients to better understand, you know what? They may sound great on paper, and they may have a great logo or or, you know, big splashy kind of, product that you wanna be aligned with. But if they’re known to be a sweatshop and their value is work, work, work, work, work, and you’re not at the place in your life where you wanna sign up for that, better to know early.
Bernie Borges [00:24:39]:
Mhmm.
Loren Greif [00:24:40]:
So I I I find this to be something that is often an afterthought because when the temptation to just apply to open roles is so prevalent, This is how many people get into that state of, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And I’m here I am in this toxic organization or, you know, I’m in I applied to this company and I keep getting rejected, and I think it’s because of ageism. Well, you should probably check out what’s happening in the organization. Take a good look at a site called The Org, which shows you the entire the entire organizational chart and check out LinkedIn. Probably gonna get a good sense of, you know, what that dynamic looks like.
Bernie Borges [00:25:25]:
Yeah. Speaking of age, let’s talk about the the fact that, the average workplace is, I think, four or five generations. Right? It’s multi generation. Five? Okay. So, what’s the impact for those of us 40 that are looking for a career transition in a multi generational workforce, world?
Loren Greif [00:25:49]:
Yes. It’s the meeting of the minds. So this is a separate skill and training that that if you are, heading back into corporate, it’s it’s it’s there. It’s not, you know, when, if. It already is existing. And it’s not an us versus them multicultural teams. We know another another business, you know, advantage is we know that they’re more productive, and we also know that they are also more profitable. But the the rub typically comes from either end.
Loren Greif [00:26:24]:
Right? Maybe some of the younger workers are resistant to to feeling like there is, we need to do it your way kind of kind of mentality. And some of the older workers have some latent resentment around how they go about texting and maybe are not seen as, you know, super punctual. And it’s really important to refrain from judgments and also really get under the hood of where the points of collaboration are, which as I said earlier, is one of those five those five soft skills that’s AI is not gonna take take away. So use those to your advantage. And if that means also identifying people who are working in companies like that currently, have some coffees with them. What are the biggest challenges that you’re running into when you’re there? Like, is it weird? Does it does like, how does it how does it affect your ego? What are your workarounds? Because it’s a very, very strong possibility that somebody that you’re reporting into could be significantly younger. And there are a lot to celebrate there too because you’re probably gonna learn a lot and they’re gonna learn a lot too. So it’s not if and.
Loren Greif [00:27:41]:
It’s it’s really, you know, how so?
Bernie Borges [00:27:44]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, the, the thriving and midlife report that I published, late last year, 2024, with Udemy, one of the 42 data points is that 75% of workers 40 enjoy working with younger folks. So so from a one way standpoint, meaning from the 40 crowd to the younger crowd, there’s this this acknowledgment. 75 is pretty significant that they enjoy it. So it’s really a matter of leaders making that happen in a productive way, you know, so that it happens more frequently and maybe can begin to kinda erode some of these walls that are out there around ageism.
Loren Greif [00:28:28]:
A lot of companies are building out I mean, it’s it’s not common, but it’s increasingly more popular, reverse mentorships, ways in which advisory roles, especially at at smaller startup types of environments. And those are also winning solutions for somebody who may not want to take on a huge full time role and also stay involved and in the mix of what’s happening in today’s workforce.
Bernie Borges [00:29:00]:
Yeah. Yeah. Lauren, before we wrap, any other points you wanna make around, 2025 and what, workers over 40 should be thinking about?
Loren Greif [00:29:09]:
You know, I think that another secret sauce that I do meet with some reasonable resistance around is your thought leadership. If you think about it, you have a unique opportunity. You have all this experience. You have all this know how. You have all this, you know, under understanding of what it is that you’ve been doing. Share it. Share it. The more you share, not only does that help the greater good, but also it helps you increase your price point.
Loren Greif [00:29:42]:
And there’s been a lot of conversations, and I don’t know where it is right now. But on the back end of LinkedIn, up and coming is expected that not only is the algorithm going to be assessing your skills, you know, just the plain keywords and skills and all the give me the facts, ma’am, but also aggregating your content. And I think that that’s I mean, some people might not like that, but I think that that’s great because I think you should be rewarded for the efforts that you apply to actually help others and also to ensure that you are doing your part in staying current in the marketplace. And nothing like a little accountability and then, you know, putting a post up maybe once or twice a week and sharing that and building building your network that way. So, I mean, I I could go on. There’s a lot of different components to this. I didn’t wanna touch on networking because I think it’s it’s fairly obvious that that’s really where the majority we know easily, 85 to 90% of all of the roles for folks who are at the executive level. And even if you’re not at the executive level, a well proportion are are gonna be through your through your network.
Loren Greif [00:31:01]:
The AI congestion on the applicant tracking system has become so dense that I actually shared this today. Because it’s so easy and the barriers are so low, recruiters on the back end are spending anywhere between three to five hours a day sifting and sorting through resumes, of which 75% of those recruiters said less than half are qualified. So because it’s so easy to just hit apply now, apply now, apply now, sadly, it’s clogging the entire system, which means it’s not helping you get through and it’s not helping anybody else who is qualified get through it too.
Bernie Borges [00:31:40]:
Well, to your point, networking is really the way to go, in finding the next opportunity. And the other point you made is just posting a few times a week. You know, mostly, I think a lot of people and this is anecdotal. There’s probably some data to back this up because I know it to be true. Most people don’t post on LinkedIn. Most don’t.
Loren Greif [00:31:59]:
Oh, no. I understand. It’s a very low percentage. I think it’s 3% I think it’s, like, 3% of the overall LinkedIn universe, and that’s over a billion, are posting, at least once a week.
Bernie Borges [00:32:12]:
Yeah.
Loren Greif [00:32:13]:
So, you know, for me, I post every day. My clients don’t, but they do post. They have their own cadence, and it’s been they’ve been found in comment threads. They’ve been found from what they’re saying. They’ll go to an interview. Somebody will say to them, wow. I really like that, you know, that post that you did last week. I I thought that that was really insightful or funny or something like that.
Loren Greif [00:32:36]:
And it doesn’t have to be scary. You don’t have to be a great writer. You don’t have to be a mathematician or, you know, somebody that’s a statistician. You’re probably gonna go someplace in your life that you’ve had a lesson that you could share and
Bernie Borges [00:32:50]:
and Exactly. Exactly. Lauren, this is a great conversation, and I can easily keep it going. But we’re gonna wrap it here. But first, I wanna invite you to share with my listener how can they connect with you and just get into your world.
Loren Greif [00:33:05]:
Sure. I’d love to meet you wherever you are, whoever you are. I my, home away from home is LinkedIn, and so you can always find me there. You can also, head over to my website portfoliorocket.com. And, also, I drop my episodes every Wednesday, career blast and a half.
Bernie Borges [00:33:26]:
Fantastic. Well, Lauren, my listener knows that all of that is linked up in the show notes for this episode. So, again, Lauren, thank you so much. You are a wealth of knowledge and insights and expertise on this whole midlife career transition thing. It’s a big deal. It’s a big deal. You take it very seriously, and you have a very valuable service where you help a lot of people, not just through your service, but through the content that you share on LinkedIn as well. So I wanna encourage my listener to just follow you on LinkedIn and, and learn from you.
Bernie Borges [00:33:58]:
And beyond that, contact you if, if they wanna have a conversation with you. So thank you so much, Lauren.
Loren Greif [00:34:03]:
You are so welcome. Thank you for having me, Bernie, and thank you so much, everyone, for listening.
