Bernie Borges [00:00:00]:
Eric Kershat, welcome to the Midlife Fulfill podcast, a vulnerable conversation.
Erich Kurschat [00:00:06]:
Thanks, Bernie. I’m excited to be talking with you today.
Bernie Borges [00:00:09]:
You’re gonna be vulnerable in this conversation, Eric?
Erich Kurschat [00:00:12]:
I’ve I’ve shown up for it, so I have no choice at this point. I can’t I can’t You have.
Bernie Borges [00:00:15]:
I can’t my tail
Erich Kurschat [00:00:16]:
between my legs.
Bernie Borges [00:00:20]:
Yeah. Well, let me give you a quick introduction. I’m sure we can learn more about you as we dive into the conversation, but I love how you are a self proclaimed disc nerd, disc as in capital d, lowercase I, capital s, capital c, for more than eighteen years. You are passionate about equipping individuals to communicate meaningfully and productively. You run a business called Harmony Insights, and you help organizations build high performing teams and revenue streams around the everything DISC and five behaviors assessments. That gives you tremendous qualifications, Eric, for this conversation around the value of community. And the way that I would like to tee up our conversation around the value of community is on your LinkedIn profile, you have nine belief statements. One of them is you say, I believe that introverts underestimate their ability to network professionally.
Bernie Borges [00:01:24]:
What do you mean by that?
Erich Kurschat [00:01:27]:
First, I wanna mention, I’ve had those up there for years. You may be only the second person that’s ever referenced them in a conversation like this. And I don’t know if that just means that they’re buried and go unnoticed or just people don’t feel compelled to comment, but I I really appreciate not only that you saw them, but that you wanted to pull that into our conversation today because that, I mean, they’re beliefs of mine. I hold them very dearly, and I feel strongly about them. I say they, I think, maybe in the statement, and I think that’s how you write it. I it’s sort of us, we. I am an introvert, and I put that in part I put that there in part because I needed to believe more strongly in the strengths that I bring to professional networking. You know, I started my business, Harmony Insights, however many years ago now.
Erich Kurschat [00:02:12]:
It came out of a corporate HR job and didn’t have a network and and didn’t have a LinkedIn presence and really needed to figure it out and immediately thought, well, I’m introverted. Like, this isn’t something I do. I don’t care for this. You want me to be in a room full of people I don’t know? Like, I’d rather do anything else than that. And I had to come to a a place where I recognized that in order to enjoy it, in order for it to be fruitful, I had to network in a way that made sense to me and was meaningful and fulfilling to me, not in a way that somebody else would do it. And, I developed a conference session called network like an introvert to surround myself by other people who are figuring it out themselves, and the rest is history.
Bernie Borges [00:02:54]:
Okay. Well, again, the theme for our conversation is the value of community. And I wanna give a shout out to the community that you have built, at least the one that I’m familiar with. There may be others. And then you graciously invited me to be a member of this community, and it’s called the HR hot seat community. So why don’t you oh, and by the way, I I wanna say something about that. Because you just finished saying that you’re an introvert. And when I attended my first HR hot seat virtual event, I think there were, what, fifty, sixty, 70? I don’t remember how many people were there.
Bernie Borges [00:03:29]:
Do you remember the number?
Erich Kurschat [00:03:31]:
Yeah. It was around 50. Just shy of 50, I think.
Bernie Borges [00:03:33]:
Okay. You emceed that event. You orchestrated that event masterfully. So the last thing someone would say is that you’re an introvert. But, anyway, I digress a little bit. You you built this community, the HR hot seat community, and so it’s all around the value of community. So give us a little context. Like, why did you build that community? What’s it about? You know, how does that sort of fulfill you?
Erich Kurschat [00:04:02]:
I can come at this from a couple of different angles. I was coming out of a corporate HR role in starting my own business and and needed a network and needed some visibility. And I thought this could be good marketing, you know, to to start what I’ve been learning about at the time, a mastermind group, a traditional group of maybe six to 10 or 12 people that met regularly and tackled common challenges. I thought this could be good marketing for the disc business that I do. So in part, it was a a marketing effort. In part, I, as an introvert, knew that I needed to do networking. I needed to network, and the experiences I was having were very superficial and transactional. I remember a speed networking event where I’m shoulder to shoulder, and then you talk for a minute, you shift, and, like, it was just chaos.
Erich Kurschat [00:04:47]:
And I thought there’s nothing meaningful about this. I wanna create the community that I would want to be a part of. I wasn’t even thinking in terms of community at the time. It really was meant to be a traditional mastermind group. And now over eight years later, we have over 3,500 members, and at one point got up to 14 chapters. It’s taken on a life of its own. And, yes, I am an introvert organizing all of this, and and we can certainly get into that if you’d like. But I believe very strongly that there is value in community, and I wanted to build the community that I didn’t feel existed.
Bernie Borges [00:05:20]:
Okay. Couple of things you said that I wanna make sure they don’t get lost. You just said, Eric, that that community is up to over 3,500 members. Three five zero zero. Three thousand five hundred members. That is an amazing accomplishment. I hope that you occasionally stop and smell the roses and pat yourself on the back and just take it all in and just appreciate that achievement. 3,500 members and whatever the the number of chapters is, that’s truly, truly, truly amazing.
Bernie Borges [00:05:54]:
And I wanna come back to something you just said because you said you wanted to start networking when you started your business. But what you did is you created an environment where people can network by joining versus building. So why don’t you speak to that?
Erich Kurschat [00:06:15]:
So I thought about this over time. Initially, I was the joiner. I identified where my target audience was, in this case, HR folks. I wanted to stay close to that that function, but also I do a lot of business with and through HR people. And so I thought I’m gonna go where they are. And so I went to local HR organizations and associations, and I was enjoying that experience. I was speaking. I was attending events as an attendee and a volunteer, but I recognized very quickly that I sort of craved the experience of being the reason that people were coming together.
Erich Kurschat [00:06:51]:
So I needed to go from joining communities, and there’s nothing wrong with that in and of itself if people kinda hang out there for a bit, to a place where I was building community and that people were showing up and getting value in part because of what I had to say and how I was facilitating, but in part because of their interactions with one another. And then even if they never interacted with me, they left having had such a good time, such a valuable time that they they couldn’t help but associate in some way that value with the fact that I was a part of it. And I just I came to feel very strongly about the power of not only community in general, certainly joining communities, but whenever possible, even as a novice, building community around you and being intentional about what that looks like.
Bernie Borges [00:07:36]:
Well, speaking from my own experience, having attended my first HR hot seat event recently, virtual event, I can tell you for a fact, and I’m sure you saw it, comments from the attendees about what a great host you are, what a great leader you are of the community. And everyone appreciates your leadership. Everyone appreciates your authenticity, your engagement. You care for the community, and it’s, again, it’s authentic. So again and and it’s very well recognized. So, kudos to that. And so I
Erich Kurschat [00:08:09]:
interject just long enough to say, Bernie, I need a a miniature version of you on my shoulder that I can carry around at all times for when I start to doubt those things.
Bernie Borges [00:08:20]:
But, you know, I can appreciate that because we we all even even extroverts and confident people, we all have those moments where we need a little pat on the back or a little bit of reinforcement. So it’s called being human. So I can appreciate that. And by the way, you can call on me anytime, Eric, to, to be that little voice on your shoulder.
Erich Kurschat [00:08:41]:
I love it.
Bernie Borges [00:08:43]:
You also talk about the importance of diverse contributions in a community setting. What’s what’s that about?
Erich Kurschat [00:08:51]:
So when you get two or more people in the same space, all kinds of things happen. I think you can get magic, you know, if if there’s collaboration there and and people are different bringing different perspectives and viewpoints. There can be conflict, you know, and everybody has their own relationship with conflicts. Some people kind of avoid it at all costs as I’ve been known to do on occasion, and other people embrace it and sort of manage it productively. I think it can be a valuable thing, can lead to innovation and productivity, all sorts of things. But I really spent a lot of time, especially in the disc work that I do in five behaviors of a cohesive team, thinking about this idea that we are stronger as a community, the more diverse our perspectives and lived experiences and interests and values really are. You know? And if I showed up in a room full of Erics, you know, maybe we’d have great conversations about certain things, but at some point, like, we’re gonna look around and say, jeez. You know, we we could use an outside perspective on some of the stuff that we’re discussing.
Erich Kurschat [00:09:49]:
And a mastermind group, certainly, but, you know, a a mastermind community for sure. Honestly, a community of any sort is gonna thrive on that cognitive diversity so that you’re embracing diversity, but you’re you’re also being inclusive in the process. And we won’t go off on a tangent on how DEI is sort of in the crosshairs at this point, but I I hold strongly that there is such value in in bringing diverse people together whatever the purpose.
Bernie Borges [00:10:18]:
Sure. Sure. No. I completely understand your point. You mentioned DISC. That’s certainly that’s who you are professionally. One of your nine belief statements, Eric, is you say I believe that the DISC personality assessment is an invaluable resource. So for those and I’m not terribly familiar with DISC in terms of at a detailed level.
Bernie Borges [00:10:39]:
Why don’t you unpack that a little bit for us?
Erich Kurschat [00:10:42]:
DISC is one of the leading personality assessments, workplace assessments in the marketplace, and there are four primary styles, d I s and c. They’ll stand for different things. We don’t have to get into too much of the details now, but the idea behind it is is twofold, really. Number one, I can be a more productive contributor. I can connect more meaningfully and productively with other people if I better understand myself, my preferences, and and, tendencies in the workplace, in what environments do I best work, and what communication styles do I prefer. And then second, once I understand me, if I can come to understand you and get a sense that there is such a thing as cognitive diversity, that we all have different comfort zones, so to speak, I can do something about that. I can take that information and optimally adapt to you when I have the chance and say, okay. I’m gonna have a conversation with Bernie.
Erich Kurschat [00:11:36]:
The way that I would typically approach this project might not necessarily be the most efficient way about it or the most productive way. What language does Bernie speak? Can I come to understand and speak that language myself such that when we connect, you walk away feeling seen and heard and respected and celebrated in ways that you may never have felt before? DISC is just a shared language that an organization can use to facilitate that conversation.
Bernie Borges [00:12:02]:
So it sounds like then having an understanding of DISC can be beneficial in a community environment. Right? Because you could be more perceptive about those around you and maybe engage a little bit more effectively. Is that right?
Erich Kurschat [00:12:15]:
Even if you’re not, you know, and you didn’t imply this, but even if you’re not an expert in DISC, just that awareness, that curiosity to say, alright. I’m gonna step into a room now with all kinds of people, many, probably most of whom don’t see the world the way that I do, kind of come at it through a different lens. Instead of pushing back against that and seeing those differences as, harmful in any way detrimental, I can embrace them and be curious and say, jeez, how does Bernie see things and how can I not necessarily begin to see them that way going forward myself, but appreciate and and acknowledge and leverage those differences in a way that is gonna be beneficial to us as a community, not only to me as an individual?
Bernie Borges [00:12:57]:
Eric, one of your other nine belief statements is you say that I believe in the possibility of meaningful, fulfilling work. And, of course, this is the Midlife Fulfilled podcast. So fulfilling work, I think, resonates to me and certainly to my listening and viewing audience. So what’s your experience been around that? Because just a quick other comment to kinda set the stage for this part of the conversation. I have observed both anecdotally and through research that I published last year that sometimes meaningful work in our midlife seasons is challenging to find. Mhmm.
Erich Kurschat [00:13:37]:
Yeah. I I wouldn’t doubt that. I’d love to read more about that. I I think it’s challenging to find in part perhaps because it’s challenging to define, you know, that you may have very well gone the majority of your working life doing things, doing work that is not fulfilling. You you’ve done work because you’ve had to do it. It’s the quickest way to a paycheck. You’ve had mouths to feed. I just welcome two new babies, identical twin girls into my family, and I I feel this this real pressure to earn.
Erich Kurschat [00:14:06]:
Congratulations. Thank you. And if business got slow for me, I mean, I’m not above, filling out an application at Costco, for example. You know? And and people have to do that to make ends meet. And so I I I’ve often said that that meaningful, fulfilling, rewarding work is a luxury, that if you have the opportunity to consider it and and define what that means for you and pursue it and you have the time to to really land in a place that you’re doing something, you know, incredibly rewarding, that’s a unique opportunity, maybe a privileged opportunity. You know? There’s certainly an argument to be made for that. And, I I really do have a passion for helping others define what that looks like for them. And if possible, pursue it and achieve it.
Bernie Borges [00:14:49]:
Yeah. Eric, I mentioned the report, that I published last year, thriving in midlife report. There’s an interesting data point that I’ve referenced a few times on the podcast, and it’s the following. Sixty one percent of respondents said that they were fulfilled in their career. Then later in the survey, 75% said that they were satisfied in their career. So 75% said they’re satisfied, 61% said they’re fulfilled. And then there’s another question that says, if you could only be fulfilled or happy, which one would you choose? 79% shows fulfillment. So I posit that as a result of those three data points, fulfillment is a higher bar.
Bernie Borges [00:15:31]:
Notice 61% said they’re fulfilled in their career, 75% said they’re satisfied in their career, fulfillment is a higher bar. Would you agree?
Erich Kurschat [00:15:41]:
I would imagine so, and it’s such an individual conversation. I mean, I I have friends that say, you know, I I work to live and others that say I live to work. Some people who want to find just very deep meaning in the work that they do and feel that it aligns with their deepest held values, and other people who say, honestly, it’s eight hours a day where I can earn a paycheck and come home and really enjoy myself. So it’s such an individual conversation. But in terms of the the data points that you served up, yeah, I would I would say that fulfillment is to be satisfied isn’t a glowing review of your job. Yeah. I’m satisfied. It’s like, alright.
Erich Kurschat [00:16:17]:
You know? But then when somebody says I’m fulfilled, that’s next level. I mean, this is just off the top of my head. There may be another level yet, and that’s inspired. You know? That’s something beyond fulfilled. It’s sort of implying that there’s more to be achieved or more to be enjoyed or something beyond I’m getting what I need out of this job even if it’s in the deepest sense. I don’t know. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Bernie Borges [00:16:46]:
No. I I I would agree. I would agree. You know, the the next level of inspired is an interesting one because I wonder how many people think about that, think in terms of being inspired. You know, to your point, a lot of people look at their job as a job and not a place for inspiration. So I think it it would require doing some research to really test the theme of inspiration, you know, correlated to career in order to really gain deeper understanding. In the meantime, I think it’s, you know, it’s it’s an interesting thought. And I’ll tell you what, Eric.
Bernie Borges [00:17:22]:
When I do the 2025 survey later this year, I will include inspiration in the survey.
Erich Kurschat [00:17:29]:
I was just gonna say I will wait with bated breath for your next white paper.
Bernie Borges [00:17:36]:
Yep. Well, again, so you have boy, the here’s some really cheesy pun. You’ve inspired me to include inspiration in this year’s survey. Okay. Enough of that. Eric, I wanna come back to one of your other nine statements because it’s an a topic that I feel very strongly about, and that topic is communication. So I have said for a long, long time that communication is the hardest thing we do in life in life. Now you have it framed up within the workplace.
Bernie Borges [00:18:09]:
You say you believe that workplace communication can be productive, collaborative, and respectful. You wanna elaborate on that?
Erich Kurschat [00:18:19]:
Yeah. I like what you say that communication can be the hardest thing, and I’ve said that in a different way. I’ve talked when I’ve done some career coaching. I’ve talked about the unique challenges of of defining meaningful work as we’ve already as we’ve already talked about. You know, what does that look like? But then the exercise of communicating that to somebody else, you know, or to recognize that this is what I value in life, but then putting those values into words. I’ve heard it said, and I’ll probably botch this, but the, like, thoughts clarify themselves, passing over lips and through pencil tips. And that’s kind of the communication piece. So the moment you can speak something aloud or write it down, you are clearer on whatever sort of, you know, is going on, up top in the workplace then.
Erich Kurschat [00:19:08]:
It’s communication is central. And and, I mean, maybe speaking from the the point of view of an introvert, I I went probably an excessive amount of time heads down in a cube on Excel, you know, during my corporate HR career, you know, and there’s certain a certain amount of communication in that, but on it, you know, there are days where I avoided colleagues and and and others because I felt like they may have been a distraction. The moment I opened up to the value of collaboration and connecting meaningfully with other people and and producing together instead of on my own, you know, it’s there’s there’s there’s value in that. You learn very quickly, though, that with that cognitive diversity that we talked about previously without a shared language, for example, like DISC or other assessments out there, that communication piece becomes especially tricky. And I kinda live in a sense to to help shepherd others through that, through that challenge.
Bernie Borges [00:20:07]:
You may have just answered the question that I wanna ask you next in your last statement, but I’ll ask you anyway because you can elaborate. And that is, what is the role of communication in community?
Erich Kurschat [00:20:24]:
Alright. So community then sort of implies that we are coming together as individuals. You don’t wanna lose your individuality in the process. You’re you’re showing up as somebody with unique gifts and strengths and and contributions. But if they if they start and end with you, I’d imagine that’s that’s a travesty. That’s a shame. Right? So I’d imagine the the role that the communication plays in community is being able to show up and say, this is the value that I bring. We are aligned in some way.
Erich Kurschat [00:20:51]:
We have something in common within this community as as typically is the case with communities. How can I contribute to that? What do you need to know of me in terms of my strengths, but then also my potential limitations and challenges such that, we can get where we’re going, if not faster, maybe more effectively or more meaningfully, or you can fill in the blank however you want. But if I show up with, you know, tight lips and kind of a hesitation in terms of what I’m sharing with other people and how vulnerable I’m willing to be in the process, maybe sort of conflict avoidant at times, you’re hampering communication in a way that is certainly going to keep that community from operating, you know, on full cylinder. That’s not the way that I wanna put it optimally.
Bernie Borges [00:21:39]:
Okay. That that’s okay because I can’t resist the opportunity to really give another shout out to your HR hot seat community because one of the things that you do, and, again, you do this just so well, is you break up I think you said there were 50 people ish. You break us up into groups, small groups, and then you distribute us into virtual rooms. We each pick a topic. We have conversation around it for a good amount of time.
Erich Kurschat [00:22:07]:
Mhmm.
Bernie Borges [00:22:08]:
And then we come back, and there’s a spokesperson from each room that sort of summarizes that. So there’s communication beforehand with you and everybody, and then there’s the small group where we’re all communicating amongst each other and then coming back into the bigger setting. So it really contributes to the community. And the communication aspect of it is very, very it’s effective. It just it works.
Erich Kurschat [00:22:34]:
I appreciate you pointing that out. It’s also working on other levels that people may not be aware. You know? So I’ve communicated with attendees in advance such so that our time together is as beneficial it can be as it can be. So I have coached people in advance, which includes some communication. The challenges that we are tackling together, the solutions for those challenges often come back to effective communication. You know? So whether you’re trying to get buy in from your leadership team or you’re trying to figure out how to increase adoption for a new, training program you’ve put into place, whatever it happens to be, we have found that communication ends up being a theme, which is great. It’s music to my ears. You know, I don’t plug disc every time it comes up, but I very I’m very certain to underscore the fact that so often we just come back to effective communication being, so beneficial.
Bernie Borges [00:23:28]:
Yeah. Communication is just it’s just key. Like I said, I think it’s the hardest thing we do in life. And since we spend I think, you know, the number is two thirds of our waking hours in a work environment for those that are still working, which I think most most people that listen to this podcast, not all, are still working. And, so we spend a lot of time doing that. So communication is key. Now, I have one final statement that I wanna read, belief statement that I wanna read from your LinkedIn profile. And so this would be the final one before we bring to a wrap.
Bernie Borges [00:23:59]:
And I saved I I I don’t wanna say the best, but maybe my favorite topic
Erich Kurschat [00:24:03]:
Okay.
Bernie Borges [00:24:04]:
Eric, because, you know, I’m really, focused on leadership at this point in my life and legacy building through leadership. And you say you believe that each one of us is capable of leading with greater influence. You wanna unpack that?
Erich Kurschat [00:24:21]:
Yeah. So I I came to influence kind of through the term sales. You know? And I I was building my business, and I I was reading and listening to books having to do with sales, how to close sales, how to pitch, etcetera. And there’s something about that, and I knew I understood the value of that as a as a small business owner. But there’s something about the word sales that just didn’t sit right with me. You know? Daniel Pink has a book called To Sell Is Human, then he makes the point that we’re all in the business of influencing and moving and persuading other people.
Bernie Borges [00:24:54]:
Mhmm.
Erich Kurschat [00:24:54]:
And I don’t know if I came about influence in that book or if it was elsewhere, but I thought that’s that’s a word and a concept I can sink my teeth into. Sales doesn’t feel right to me. It’s just not aligned with kind of how I view the work that I do and and even talking about the work that I do. But when it comes to influencing others, I saw the value in that. Mhmm. And so I thought, you know what? I don’t think that only applies to me. I think each one of us in some way may be limited in terms of how we view our potential as leaders. You know? Well, I’m I’m I’m not I don’t have enough experience.
Erich Kurschat [00:25:29]:
I have too much experience, so I’m jaded, or I’m not at the right season in in life to to be a leader. I’m just uncomfortable with the title. And then our influence as a result ends up being limited. And I love the idea that there’s more for each of us. There there’s more that each of us is capable of doing if we truly showed up, self aware, you know, confident to the extent that we’re able to and embrace this idea that whether or not we have the title, we’re each in a position to lead.
Bernie Borges [00:25:59]:
Yes. And so just that last point you just made, whether or not we have the title, that’s exactly the point that I wanna add, and then we’ll wrap. And that is that it doesn’t you don’t need a title. You don’t need a role. You don’t need to be designated as a leader. You just need to be in a situation where you recognize an opportunity to act in some way with influence. Yeah. Hopefully, positive influence that’s leading.
Bernie Borges [00:26:22]:
Yeah. And I think, that that’s a great, great wrap point, Eric. Before I let you go, please tell us, if someone listening, watching, would like to connect with you, how can they connect with you and get into your world?
Erich Kurschat [00:26:36]:
I appreciate you offering, and I really wish your conversations went twice as long because I feel like there’s still so much more we have to talk about. Harmonyinsights.com. My company is called Harmony Insights LLC, so you can find out about me there. Hrhotseat.com is where my HR community lives. It’s entirely free. And then I probably spend far too much time on LinkedIn. So if you just find Eric Kershaw, that’s e r I c h, Kershaw, we can engage there as well.
Bernie Borges [00:27:07]:
Well, thank you, Eric. I would love to continue this conversation as well, and maybe we’ll do that, offline. And my listener knows that all those links are linked up in the show notes for this episode. So, Eric, I wanna thank you for joining me for this episode of the Midlife Fulfilled Podcast Day, vulnerable conversation around all things community and leadership and self awareness and DISC, you know, how all of those magically come together to to give us an environment. And HR hot seat, which, again, I just wanna give a shout out to. Thank you for inviting me to join. It’s a wonderful community. Any anybody’s listening, check it out if that that, sounds of interest to you.
Bernie Borges [00:27:47]:
Eric, just thank you again. Really appreciate your time today.
Erich Kurschat [00:27:50]:
Well, Bernie, not only has it been a satisfying conversation, it’s been a fulfilling conversation. So thank you for that.
Bernie Borges [00:27:58]:
Take it. I’ll take it.
