Bernie Borges [00:00:00]:
Doctor. Jan Herman, welcome to the Midlife Fulfill podcast, a maximum episode.
Jenn Herman [00:00:07]:
Doctor. Yay. I’m excited.
Bernie Borges [00:00:09]:
So glad to have you, Jen. Well, Jen, I’m gonna give my listener just a little introduction to you. You are a Well known internationally famous social media consultant speaker and globally recognized Instagram expert. You are a sought after international speaker providing tips and resources. You do training for organizations of all sizes. And your background includes administration, sales, human resources, marketing, and I love how you you bring all those Those skills, that background together to help people grow their business using Instagram. You’ve been featured in a lot of media properties, Inc Magazine, Fox News, BBC, Yahoo, Entrepreneur, HuffPost. I mean, the the list is long.
Bernie Borges [00:01:01]:
And you’ve authored Instagram for dummies, Instagram business for, for business for dummies, and the ultimate guide to social media marketing. Did I miss 1? I thought there was a 4th one.
Jenn [00:01:11]:
So there’s actually yeah. There’s 2 of each of the Instagram editions. So we have 2 for business, 2 of the regular Instagram, and then the 1, social media. So, technically, five So Yeah.
Bernie Borges [00:01:20]:
Alright. Wow. Okay. But, you know, Jen, my favorite fun fact about you is and you know what that is. And that is that You have a master’s degree in forensic science, yet you are a a renowned Instagram Consultant speaker. So part of what I wanna discuss with you is how you bring those 2 together. But I invited you on the podcast, Jen, because I saw a post you did on Instagram where you ranted. You did.
Bernie Borges [00:01:49]:
You ranted.
Jenn [00:01:50]:
I did.
Bernie Borges [00:01:51]:
About this conflict between this high Charging hustle and a balanced lifestyle. So I definitely wanna talk about that. But first, give us your backstory. Like, how did you get a master’s degree in forensic And then become this renowned Instagram consultant and speaker and author and all that.
Jenn [00:02:10]:
I mean, I always say I’m like, life happened. It was it was not the life plan I had by any means. So I I grew up in Canada. I was doing my undergrad in biology, I moved to San Diego to do my master’s in forensic science. I wanted to do that. I was all about CSI and crime scenes, and I’ve always wanted to be a detective and solve mysteries, and it was the perfect venue for me. And so I graduated top of my class with a master’s in forensic Science. And then life happened.
Jenn [00:02:39]:
At the time, I had a sales job. I was doing outside sales in the restaurant industry, and that was when we went through the recession. And so it was like, okay. Sales wasn’t happening. People weren’t eating at restaurants. It was a huge shift. I had to make some shifts in my career path. And along that path, I kept applying for these jobs in forensic science, but for bureaucracy reasons and various political In inner workings of a lot of these types of entities, it was really hard to get a job.
Jenn [00:03:09]:
It was really hard to get my foot in the door. And So along the way, I I kinda kept applying, but I was doing these other things with my career, and I ended up getting into more of the marketing side of things at my day job. And in that marketing role, I had to get which is for a government contract company that works on military aircraft. So the kind of antithesis of who would use social media. Military doesn’t wanna share anything. The government contractors don’t wanna share anything about what we do.
Bernie Borges [00:03:37]:
Really?
Jenn [00:03:38]:
Yeah. They because it’s so closed kimono is kind of the phrase they use. They don’t want anyone to know what you’re doing. It’s so secretive working in the military.
Bernie Borges [00:03:46]:
Yeah.
Jenn [00:03:47]:
And so I had to get these executives to embrace using social media for my day job, and I did. We we embraced it. We got much better about it. And in the process, I started this little blog called Jen’s Trends in Social Media, which was a Total hobby blog. No strategy. No business venture. No revenue. It was just, hey.
Jenn [00:04:06]:
Like, I’m bored on the weekends, and I’ll share some things I’ve learned in going through this Process in my day job. And the blog gained momentum, and I started making friends. This was back in the Google plus days. This was over 10 years ago. And I added these friends who had Google plus channels with hundreds of thousands of followers, and I had started dipping my toe into this little app Called Instagram. And in that process was like, okay. Well, how do we use this for business? Because my brain is very strategy oriented, and I was like, well, Okay. There’s all these articles on LinkedIn and Twitter and Facebook, but no one was teaching how to do Instagram.
Jenn [00:04:42]:
And so I was like, alright. Screw it. I’ll do it. So I started blogging about Instagram, and I would case study, other accounts. I would try things. I would literally test something, And it would work, and I’d be like, well, we’ll blog about that. And so that was how I fell into the world of Gram. And, again, with all these friends with these Google plus channels, they started inviting me to talk about it.
Jenn [00:05:06]:
And so I started building up this audience, and then I was invited on the podcast. Then I started getting invited to speak at conferences. And so it kind of grew very organically out of, yeah, out of, like, no Purpose of intention to wake up and be like, I’m gonna be an Instagram expert. But I think what set me apart was that I have this scientific background, And so I would literally test everything. I wouldn’t just come out and say, well, Instagram said this. And let’s face it. 10 years ago, Instagram didn’t tell us anything. So we you couldn’t just be like, well, do this.
Jenn [00:05:38]:
You I would test it, and I would say, okay. Well, if I use certain filters, do we get certain results? If I use a certain number of hashtags, do we get certain results? I Hashtags, do we get certain results? I started having the luxury of working with people around the world who got to know me, and they would say, Hey, Jen. I’m gonna I’m gonna try this over here in the UK. I’m gonna try this over here in Australia. And as other people started testing it, We got more data. We got more insights. And so I came out with this information, and I think that was why I got invited to so many of these Conferences and podcasts because it wasn’t just the superfluous use more hashtags, use pretty filters, but Strategy and actually saying if you do these 3 things, you’re gonna get results. And so I and to this day, I still use my scientific background.
Jenn [00:06:23]:
I still test everything. I still work with my clients 1 on 1, and I go and I read their insights. I read their data. I have them try things for 6 weeks. We pull new datasets, and we data because that is what shows actual success and and value of what you’re doing.
Bernie Borges [00:06:41]:
Okay. Love that background. Very unique story, Jen. Love that. At what point did you make the jump, though, from that full time job? Like, when did you say, you know, I think I’ve got a business here?
Jenn [00:06:55]:
So I still have the full time job. So I’m still working a full time job. I’ve been there for 13 years, and I’ve been running Jen’s Trends for almost 11. So I’ve been doing both concurrently for a very long time. But it was one of those things where and and for the sake of argument, my my Jen’s Trends business is actually Still successful in and of its own right, but I live in Southern California. I’m a single mom. I don’t have any other financial support. I actually paid the alimony and child support to my ex husband, So I need 2 incomes, and so I’ve had to find a way to balance keeping both in order to survive living in Southern California with the the big girl bills that I have.
Jenn [00:07:33]:
But it was a challenge at first trying to balance and, you know, figure out how it works, but I’ve been doing it for so long now that My day job is like, cool. You do you. You know? We’re good. We trust you. And and, you know, they have the world’s leading expert on their staff. So it, you know, it doesn’t hurt them either. And And I’ve but I’ve had to learn, and there are things I have to say no to. I can’t travel every week, obviously, to speak at conferences, so I can’t say yes to everything.
Jenn [00:07:58]:
But it’s it’s allowed me to do the things that I’m passionate about, which is the gens trend side of it. I I love speaking. I love working with my clients. And and I love, you know, helping people find success with with Instagram, and it’s definitely my passion project. But there’s something great about having the stability of a day job and benefits and guaranteed paychecks.
Bernie Borges [00:08:18]:
Right. So the best of both worlds. Yeah. Okay. So speaking of the best of both worlds or not, let’s get into the topic that I invited you to discuss. I thank you for sharing that backstory. It helps a lot. It gives us really good context, Jen.
Bernie Borges [00:08:35]:
So you you I I see your stuff on Instagram all the time. I’m one of your followers and fans. And you posted recently something about this, you know, hustle culture that, you know, you can’t have your cake and eat it too or something to the effect. You can’t, you know, be in this hustle culture and also have a balanced lifestyle. So Yes. I’m gonna invite you to share that rant here
Jenn [00:08:58]:
Yeah.
Bernie Borges [00:08:59]:
On the podcast. So
Jenn [00:09:00]:
And I do love a good rant, and I think my audience loves when I go. I’m like, I will literally, like, Anne rant over, and they’re don’t stop ranting. Keep giving it. So this rant specifically was related to how many of the Gurus, the top of the top in our industry that 10 years into their career, when they have Teams of people, and they have 1,000,000 of dollars in revenue, and they have all this success. And they go, you know, it’s really important to work on your Physical and mental health. And they share all these things about their you know, they don’t start work before 10 AM or they don’t They only work 4 days a week, and they share all these luxuries of self care, which is great. And I’m not saying those things aren’t wonderful, but All of them got to this stage from the hustle culture. They got there from working 14 hour days.
Jenn [00:09:51]:
They got there from Sacrificing time with their families. They got there from, you know, just grinding and and bootstrapping it with no revenue until they got Some place successful. And it it irks me when you have the who’ve hit these massive success that go back and say, You really shouldn’t, you know, stress yourself out and work for 14 hour days. And I’m like, but you wouldn’t be there if you hadn’t done that. Mhmm. And so I I ended the rant saying, I don’t think one is right or wrong. It was more to say you have to pick which one and choose The resulting consequences, so to speak. So if you choose self care, that is great.
Jenn [00:10:30]:
I support that. I’m working on my own self care and trying to be better about that. But it means you’re not gonna grow your business to 6 figures in 2 years. It might take you 5 years. Or if you wanna do the hustle culture, Good. Go for it. But understand that comes with, you know, missing out on your kids’ activities or milestones in their lives observe it’s gonna jeopardize your relationship with your spouse or partner, and you have to choose the balance that works for you understanding that you can’t Do the self care and grow your business at an exponential rate unless you have 1,000,000 of dollars socked away to support a team of people helping you build a business.
Bernie Borges [00:11:10]:
Right. Right. Yeah. No. I agree. I think, I think it it it confuses a lot of people. You know? It it gives people a sense of guilt, This false sense of I’ve gotta do the hustle culture, but I’ve also gotta do the self care. Yeah.
Bernie Borges [00:11:25]:
But how do I do both? Right? Yeah. And to your point, it’s it’s there’s no right or wrong. It’s all individual. I mean, I’ll share with you and of course with, my listener here. Personally speaking for myself, I’m at a point in my life where that self care is important. Right? So I’m up at 5 AM every morning, And I’ve got a workout routine. I’ve got a a little prayer routine, and then I do not look at email or social media before 7:30 even though I’ve been up since 5 AM. But I do not look at email or any any work before 7:30 AM.
Bernie Borges [00:11:58]:
And then, I do work in the evenings because Yeah. I work full time And I’m doing the podcast, so, you know, that sort
Jenn [00:12:05]:
of leads
Bernie Borges [00:12:05]:
into the evening. But you know what, Jen? I’m in bed 10 o’clock at night. I’m in bed by 10. And whatever I’m working on, unless it’s, like, really, you know, deadline critical, okay, which is the exception, not the norm. Whatever I’m working on, I am pacing myself, and I’m gonna be in bed by 10 o’clock because I’m up at 5 AM. That’s how I manage that self care, You know? And it’s just
Jenn [00:12:27]:
I think that’s super important. Like, it’s and, again, I’m at this stage. I’m pushing into the mid forties range, And I’m at this stage where I it is important to me too. And I’ve got my daughter and I’ve got her schedule. And, you know, now that She’s getting older. It’s a lot more extracurricular activities than it was a couple years ago. And I’m still working the full time And I’m running my full time business, and I’m trying to balance all of these things. And I have had to learn Like, I’ve I’ve let go of the hustle culture.
Jenn [00:12:59]:
I’ve done that. I did that. I I did it for a long time, and I’ve moved into this stage of Balance. And that means to your point, like, some days there I have deadlines or projects that are maybe pushing me more than usual, and I may eat dinner at my desk. But 90% of the time, I have a pretty good balanced routine from morning to night. I get 8 hours of sleep every night because I’m I’m a diva, and I will not sacrifice my sleep either. Yep. But with that means I’m not growing my business the way I was 5 years ago.
Jenn [00:13:28]:
5 years ago, I had exponential growth in my business. Now it’s kind of plateaued. There’s still growth. There’s still other things happening, but I’ve chosen not to do the hustle grind, Not to put in the, you know, the extra 3 hours every single day to do all the pitch emails, to do all the The promotional content to run ads, to do all these things. I’ve chosen to say, I’m at a stage where I’m okay. I’m comfortable. I want some growth, but we’re gonna do that growth at a much slower pace so that I can go for a walk every day, so I can spend time with my daughter every So I can have my weekends off, but I also know that I’m at this stage of my career because I’ve been doing this for 10 years, and I’ve built myself to a stage where I have the audience and the platform to be able to take that time off.
Bernie Borges [00:14:15]:
Yeah. I I I love it. You know, I have Affirmations that I say out loud every morning. And one of them is that I will take steps to grow my business, you know, my side business Yeah. Every day. Yeah. I will take steps every day. And so and I know that there some people would criticize that and say, well, that’s not specific enough.
Bernie Borges [00:14:41]:
You know, you’re not being specific enough. And for the reasons you and I are discussing here because I need that balanced lifestyle Yeah. That’s enough for me because I hold myself accountable to that. Yeah. You know, that I know that I’ve got it in my mind that every day without exception
Jenn [00:14:56]:
Right.
Bernie Borges [00:14:57]:
I’ve gotta be taking steps. So
Jenn [00:14:59]:
I think sending an email that counts. You took a step that day. You sent an email, a pitch email. You responded to a potential client. Like, You’ve reached out to more people on the podcast. Like, anything, that that is a step towards growth.
Bernie Borges [00:15:13]:
Exactly. Exactly. And then, you know, we we have to be comfortable in our own skin. Right? I know it’s very cliches, but we have to be comfortable with that that level of growth that we’re experiencing now. And I’m wondering, Jen, do you have either a mastermind group or, like, a group of people that you Talk to regularly, you know, about your business and about your, you know, overall, you know, work life balance?
Jenn [00:15:39]:
I do. So for 3 years, I had a business coach. I opted not to continue with her this year just for a a variety of reasons, not because she wasn’t Successful or anything, we worked great together. We both agreed it was time for me to move into a new stage in the best interest of of the growth of my business, So we we no longer work together, but I worked with her for 3 years, and she was instrumental to me learning my boundaries, to me setting expectations for my business, to Setting up the processes that I need to continue to grow into the future, so that was hugely valuable for me. And then I also have a small mastermind of a couple of friends who are in the same industry in social media, and we are very mutually supportive of each other. So we vent. We, you know, we complain about things that are going on in our business or even our personal lives, but we also, You know, challenge each other. If if we’re working on something, we mutually support and share each other’s stuff.
Jenn [00:16:37]:
We brainstorm. It’s like, hey. I’m I’m thinking about doing like, I recently launched my live show over on Instagram, and so they were very instrumental in helping me, you know, pick the title, pick the graphics, The the topic, the direction, tips on running the podcast type format, even though, again, I’ve been doing podcasts for years, but Having that feedback, again, make sure you think about this, make sure you think about that, and having those resources to help launch that successfully. So, absolutely, I think no matter what industry you’re in, you you need somebody who’s not your spouse. You need somebody who’s not your best friend. You need somebody who’s In your industry that you trust, that wants to collaborate, not compete, and that can support you whether it’s in a group of 2, 3, 5, 10 starts getting to be too many. Too many opinions start to to to muddy the waters, But you need that small group environment to help hold you accountable, to help challenge you, to help encourage you. Like, we all have these days where we go, why am I doing this? Like, why did I get up today and choose this as a career? This was stupid.
Jenn [00:17:42]:
And you need someone that goes, no. No. No. This was a good decision. You’re doing good things. And You can’t put that burden on your spouse and your family because they’re dealing with their own careers and their own burdens and then your family dynamic on top of it. They wanna support you. Great.
Jenn [00:17:57]:
But you need a mastermind or support group of some sort in your industry that’s going to lift you up and hold you accountable.
Bernie Borges [00:18:06]:
So a 1000% agree. I just yeah. A 1000%. 10 1000000% agree that it’s just so valuable. I wish I had done that earlier in my life. I really do. That’s, you know, one of one of the things that’s on my regret list, you know, that I Hadn’t, you know, really intentionally and thoughtfully pursued those kinds of relationships, you know, when I was in my thirties and forties and, You know, even in my my fifties. Although in my fifties is kinda when it started to happen for me.
Bernie Borges [00:18:34]:
Right.
Jenn [00:18:34]:
I’m in
Bernie Borges [00:18:34]:
my sixties now. But I I think another thing that’s interesting thing about having those relationships is that I can’t speak for you, but I’ll speak for me, Jen. And that is that for some reason, can look at someone else’s life and business
Jenn [00:18:48]:
Yeah.
Bernie Borges [00:18:49]:
Through a different pair a different lens where I can see something that they may not see, but I Can’t do that for myself. Right?
Jenn [00:19:00]:
Or I always say we are our own worst enemies when it comes to this kind of thing because We see all these other things. We see all the fuzzy edges. We see all the blurred lines. And and it’s We’re so deep into the the process of our business that it’s really hard to pull yourself out And like you said, see what you can see in someone else’s business, and that’s where the mastermind or the coach can pull come in and be like, Are you seeing this? And you go, I didn’t see that. And they’re like, oh my god. It’s clear as day. But you would see that in somebody else’s business as well. And they don’t see it.
Bernie Borges [00:19:36]:
What about fulfillment? What’s your perspective on fulfillment? You know, given, you know, your stage of life right Now where you are, how do you view fulfillment?
Jenn [00:19:47]:
So my biggest thing and this was actually an exercise that my my business coach had me go through was, You know, what’s my biggest value? What do I want most out of life? And the single word that we dialed it down to was joy, And my word for 2023 was happiness, even though joy has been my overarching thing for about 4 years now. But for me, it really is I want to enjoy my life. I want to enjoy my daughter. I want to enjoy watching her grow up. I want to enjoy Traveling and doing the things that light me up. And if I can if I can achieve that through work, Heck, yes. That’s amazing. If work is a means to an end to get there, that’s great too.
Jenn [00:20:34]:
But for me, it really is the the fulfillment is about Living my life in a way that is joyful and that that brings me joy, and that is something that is only defined by me. Other people’s definition of joy would Obviously, look different, but it that’s my big thing. And it’s it’s choosing the various paths in life, and it means saying no to certain things. It means saying yes to other things that everyone else is like, Jen, what no. Don’t do that. And I’m like, nope. That’s what’s gonna make me happy. That’s what’s gonna fulfill my life And make me feel good.
Jenn [00:21:06]:
And if I’m feeling good, I’m a better mom. I’m a better businesswoman. I’m a better partner. I’m a better friend, and I’m better for me. So that’s that has been my kind of, you know, North Star over the last few years has been choosing joy.
Bernie Borges [00:21:22]:
That’s great. That’s great. So I think you know that when I speak of fulfillment, I speak of it across 5 pillars In our midlife seasons, right? Health, fitness, career relationships and legacy. And recently I’ve been speaking about The importance of legacy. And I’ve observed anecdotally I don’t have any research to back this up, Jim, but I’ve observed anecdotally that A lot of people don’t really think of legacy fulfillment. And to put a simple definition on that, Jen, it’s just about what’s the impact you’re having on Mhmm. Fill in the blank. Right.
Bernie Borges [00:21:57]:
In your case, your daughter. You you might have a passion for something in your local community or whatever it might be, you know, aside from your daughter. It may be more than, You know, you wanted to have an impact beyond just your daughter. It might be something else. Right? And so the point around that is that Fulfillment, while joy is fantastic, I share your passion for joy. It can it can be, an up and down, up and down, up and down. Sometimes even by the moment, By the minute, by the hour, by the day. Right? But fulfillment is so deep in your soul, and there’s a word that I use to describe it, Jen, and the word is immutable.
Bernie Borges [00:22:34]:
And the definition of immutable is that it’s permanent. It can’t be undone.
Jenn [00:22:38]:
Right. And be done. Yeah.
Bernie Borges [00:22:40]:
Right? And and so when you achieve Legacy fulfillment. And I don’t even wanna restrict it to legacy fulfillment. But if you can really achieve fulfillment in any of those 5 pillars, It is immutable. You could have a bad day, but that fulfillment you know, even where you are with your daughter now in 3rd grade. Right? I’m sure you have fulfillment for things she’s already achieved at this young age. Fast forward high school, if she goes to college, whatever whatever, You know, you’ll have that fulfillment. A bad day can’t take that away.
Jenn [00:23:12]:
Right. Yeah.
Bernie Borges [00:23:13]:
Right? So that’s why I’m so passionate about it Is you know, we’ve gotta be chasing fulfillment because even on a bad day, it’s it’s there. It’s not it never goes away.
Jenn [00:23:24]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I love the legacy. That’s something that’s been on my my plan over here off to this side. And that’s part of why I have started transitioning a lot of my Instagram content where I share a lot of Instagram tips, a lot of tutorials, a lot of these things, But I’ve started moving into the, you know, the mom life, the business life, the the rant about balancing, you know, that
Bernie Borges [00:23:48]:
Right.
Jenn [00:23:49]:
The hustle culture and and your health because I actually I do. I wanna move into more of a female empowerment direction. And I actually my passion in the long run will be to help, high school and college women figure out how to enter the workforce with confidence, whether they’re starting their own careers, doing entrepreneurial, whether they’re they’re going into the corporate world. And kinda like you were saying in the green room beforehand, you know, conferences, events, those sorts of things, sponsorships to help some of these Women who may not normally be able to afford to attend these types of things. So there’s definitely that’s that’s my long term legacy plan. I want to do as much is possible to help women find success in their careers in industries that maybe don’t typically support female roles in the industry.
Bernie Borges [00:24:36]:
So that’s great. If I may offer a suggestion on that. Yeah. And that’s it’s a pretty simple one. And, I’m not a mind reader, but chances are you’re already thinking about this. And that is that when you’re focused on that, when you’re doing your thing on that, think of men like me Who are allies for women.
Jenn [00:24:57]:
Yes.
Bernie Borges [00:24:57]:
Right? Don’t exclude men. Include men as allies.
Jenn [00:25:02]:
Yes. Absolutely.
Bernie Borges [00:25:03]:
Great.
Jenn [00:25:03]:
I’m I’m lucky to have lots of allies in my life who are very supportive, and they’re it’s it’s key, right, across the board no matter what The industry is, no matter what the, the class or denomination is that that need support, we always need allies outside of that group as well.
Bernie Borges [00:25:20]:
Yeah. Well, Jim, before we wrap up here, any closing thought on this whole conversation, just any aspect of it?
Jenn [00:25:28]:
I think the biggest thing is is choosing what’s right for you and and giving yourself grace to choose what’s right for you. One of the things I’ve always Gotten both credit and flack for is I don’t follow the curve. You know, everyone else is over here. You have to do this to be successful. Like, bing, I’m gonna go this way. And that’s not always easy to do, especially when you’ve got other people in your industry or maybe even your spouse is saying, but this is what you’re supposed to do. You have to stay on this path. And if that path doesn’t feel right, get off the path.
Jenn [00:25:58]:
It’s okay to try something different and give yourself the grace to choose what is going to help you reach that fulfillment. That’s gonna help you choose whatever in your career or personal life is going to make it work for you because you’re the only person who really knows what that is.
Bernie Borges [00:26:15]:
Great advice. And, again, I’m just agreeing with you a 1000% of the whole conversation.
Jenn [00:26:21]:
I love it. I love when we’re on the same page.
Bernie Borges [00:26:24]:
Jen, where would you like to send my listener to learn more about you and just connect with you and your world?
Jenn [00:26:30]:
So I’m pretty much everywhere as Jen’s Trends. That’s j e n n s. There’s 2 n’s in Jen. So Jen’sTrends.com is my website where you can find out about to work with me on all things related to Instagram. And you can find me on Instagram at jenns_trends, And that’s where I shared the rant that got us onto the podcast today and a bunch of other life experiences as well as lots of Instagram tips. So if you’re interested on how to grow your business on Instagram, check me out there. Also have a membership called Profit Your Profile dedicated to business and Instagram training, so you can always check out more information at profit your profile.com.
Bernie Borges [00:27:08]:
Fantastic. Well, Jim, my listener knows that all that is linked up in the show notes. So it’s all there, easily accessible. Jen, I just wanna thank you for taking time out of your busy day, right in the middle of your work day and just your life to join me for this Maximum episode for, just a a great conversation on a topic that I think is an important topic, and I don’t I don’t hear a lot on this topic, so thank you for sharing your wisdom, your insights, and, your life experiences on this topic.
Jenn [00:27:37]:
I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.
