Bernie Borges [00:00:00]:
Alice Kearney, welcome to the Midlife Fulfill podcast, a maximum episode.
Alice Kearney [00:00:05]:
Thank you for having me. Very excited to be here.
Bernie Borges [00:00:08]:
Well, I’m excited for our conversation, Alice. Let me give you a quick, introduction. You run a business that you call Future Proof My Life, and you are out to inspire and empower midlifers in their quest for a healthy, happy, and, of course, a fulfilled life. I love that. And you use a combination of evidence based research as well as personal experiences, really focused on encouraging a proactive approach to life planning. Love everything about that, Alice. So what I invited you onto the podcast to discuss is you recently published a blog post that really got my attention. In fact, you invited me to contribute to the post, and I did, happily.
Bernie Borges [00:00:49]:
Thank you for the invitation. And the blog post is titled midlife men in crisis or not. So I wanna I wanna discuss that. But first, why don’t you tell us your backstory? How did you get how did you get to where you are today?
Alice Kearney [00:01:06]:
So I spent 20 years doing digital product and marketing. I then, had a family kind of crisis, and I had to leave that. And in that family crisis, I learned a lot about getting older and the things that we can do to have a better later life. I was looking after my aunt who’d had a severe illness. I went through both things like probate and caring, and I just wanted people like myself to give as much back so that people could have a better later life, and think about things in midlife so they they could achieve that.
Bernie Borges [00:01:50]:
And that led you to starting your business that you call future proof my life.
Alice Kearney [00:01:54]:
Proof my life. Exactly. So all based around sort of 3 main pillars, quite similar to yours, but, longevity, trying to live longer but healthier, lifestyle, looking at the type of work you do, and then also legacy. What is your mark going to be on the world?
Bernie Borges [00:02:14]:
You are correct. They’re similar to my 5 pillars. Those pillars are health, fitness, career, relationships, and legacy. So definitely some similarity there. Now, Alice, you’re based in the UK, and do you primarily service, people in the UK?
Alice Kearney [00:02:31]:
That is right. Yes. So, yeah, my website although people from anywhere can go on there, it’s it is tailored because there are financial and, legacy elements that are UK based.
Bernie Borges [00:02:45]:
Sure. Okay. So how did you trip over my words, not your words, or how did you arrive at that piece that you wrote about, men in midlife crisis or not?
Alice Kearney [00:02:58]:
So I started getting more into the midlife space and looking at what was out there. And what I found was there was very few midlife coaches. There were very few that were focusing on men. And when I contacted them because part of my offering is to connect people with experts to help them, And women were very happy to connect with me, very happy to have conversations, and there just wasn’t the same response from men. You were an exception, in that. Also, going to conferences, there were so many more events and conferences and communities that I found around women. So I started asking the question, actually, do men not have the same issues that I’m seeing women have? Is this agenda is there a difference in gender? And when I built my website and founded the company, I didn’t think there was. You know, I think we have very similar goals, and the transitions that we see in midlife are quite similar.
Alice Kearney [00:04:07]:
So that’s kind of how I got to it. I’ve started digging a bit deeper and really tried to find people that I could talk to that would give me their perspective. Because I’m not a man, so I was like, maybe there is something I’m really missing here.
Bernie Borges [00:04:21]:
Yeah. So, you know, you talk about evidence based research as well as your own personal stories, and I’m gonna echo that in that my little evidence based research, which I share with you in a quote for your pieces, before I started my midlife fulfilled podcast, I did some research just to see what’s out there in the way of podcasts on the topic of midlife. And I found a little over 2 well, I I discovered more than 200 podcasts. I’m sure there are many many more, but I kinda stopped at around 200. And all the 2 of the the ones that I found are hosted by women, podcasts hosted by women about midlife, specifically targeting women, meaning that their podcast shows are for women. So to your point, Alice, there’s lots and lots of content out there for midlife support for women, not a whole lot for men. So that begs the question, why? What have you discovered? Why do you think that is?
Alice Kearney [00:05:25]:
Well, so so I looked at, like well, maybe midlife men don’t have the same problems. So, again, I looked at the evidence, and, actually, they did have some different issues. So and this is very UK based. The the suicide rate for men in the UK between the ages of 50 54 is the highest out of any other demographic. So there are definitely problems there. There are also loneliness, and this is, reflected in both the US and the UK. Loneliness is is very high with men in midlife. And no one can really determine exactly why.
Alice Kearney [00:06:05]:
So I did some of my own research. I surveyed well, I sent a survey out to 50 men, midlife men. 37 responded, which was pretty good.
Bernie Borges [00:06:16]:
Mhmm.
Alice Kearney [00:06:17]:
And out of those, 40 just over 40% said they don’t actually see their friends more than monthly. So it’s either monthly or less. So I do think there is so I’ve dug in in the article and had a look at why is that. And partly, I think it’s because the women in the relationships are are doing most of the social connecting and so those men are therefore with with their partner’s friends and all those people that they actually want to be with. That was one of the sort of hypothesis I came up with, and that is reflected in, again, in the survey I did. A lot of people weren’t weren’t organizing things themselves. There were other things that were out there as well. So, things like men often were more hedonistic in their twenties thirties.
Alice Kearney [00:07:17]:
So they were going out drinking more, and they were, you know, clubbing, those sorts of things. And as they had children and as they were becoming healthier, they decided that actually that wasn’t the social life they wanted anymore. So they weren’t going out as much because they weren’t doing those things. So those are a a couple of things that I came up with that seem to explain some of that that loneliness.
Bernie Borges [00:07:47]:
Yeah. And I I believe both through evidence based research as well as just anecdotal, as you say, personal experiences. I believe that men have many of the same challenges in midlife that that women do. So we obviously know about menopause for women. There’s a concept called andropause for men, which I read, and I don’t have the statistic right in front of me. But I read that it’s a fairly low number of men, low a low percentage of men that actually experience andropause. And by the way, both menopause and endropause are not like a medical diagnosis. It’s just what the medical community has put a label on the challenges that women go through, I.
Bernie Borges [00:08:30]:
E. Menopause and that men go through called labeled andropause. But it’s not a medical diagnosis. But here’s my hypothesis, Alice. Mhmm. And I don’t know if this is regional, meaning US, UK No. Or or not. I I I don’t know this.
Bernie Borges [00:08:45]:
This is kind of anecdotal on my part. But I believe based on both what I’ve read as well as just anecdotal that men, generally speaking, are less inclined to to seek help. Whether it’s a little bit of help or a lot of bit of help, you know, no matter what it may be, men are less inclined to seek help, to even acknowledge that they need help in fill in the blank. Anything. I’m I’m really generalizing across the spectrum of life, not just challenges in midlife, but just anything in general. What do you think?
Alice Kearney [00:09:21]:
Yeah. No. I mean, I completely agree. You know, one of the stats that, I put out there was about, you know, the health span between men and women. The difference is is because men weren’t going to the doctors as much for preventable diseases. It’s not that actually they weren’t going through the same things as women. They just weren’t going to the doctors. And I interviewed quite a few male life coaches, and they said it was so much harder to get men on board to talk to them.
Alice Kearney [00:09:53]:
And that is, I think, the reason why it hasn’t there are fewer midlife groups because men aren’t asking for help. So there is a supply and demand situation there. You know, if they’re not gonna if they’re gonna be harder to get across the line and help them, there’s gonna be less people offering those services. I mean, yes, I totally agree. In all areas of life, I think men find it harder to ask for help. All we have to do is be lost with a man. And a woman will say, should we just ask that person over there? And a man will start looking at his phone and go, no. No.
Alice Kearney [00:10:31]:
No. I can’t find the answer. So I think it is a generalisation. But I think it is a true I think it is. There is definitely a trend. There is definitely, some truth in that.
Bernie Borges [00:10:44]:
And I think your doctor story is representative of that point that men generally seek help less often than women. Yeah. Just the fact that they’re unwilling to to go to doctors. I I just spent some time with a friend who’s in his early sixties, and he has a problem with his knee, and he’s had it for a while. I asked him, has he gone to see a a doctor or an orthopedist? No. Do you plan to? Yeah. No. It it just it hurts, and then it feels better.
Bernie Borges [00:11:15]:
And I’m slapping my forehead like, dude, what are you waiting for? If I had that eye and it didn’t go away after a couple of months, I mean, come on. So
Alice Kearney [00:11:26]:
Yeah. I mentioned that in in one in the article. I have a very close friend who had a back pain, and it was, oh, it will go away. I’ll just do more exercise. It’ll be fine. To the point where he’s had 3 operations now. And they said if you’d come to us just that bit earlier, you would never have got this far. You know? Never have got this far.
Bernie Borges [00:11:45]:
Exactly.
Alice Kearney [00:11:45]:
So
Bernie Borges [00:11:46]:
Exactly. It’s so exciting.
Alice Kearney [00:11:47]:
It is frustrating. But Yeah. But the male coaches I spoke to said it is it is changing. It is you it just takes longer. You know? And often, the men that do come to them are at the crisis point. So they’ve had a divorce, burnout, or something, you know, quite quite serious has happened, and they feel like, okay. No. I can’t I can’t carry on like this.
Bernie Borges [00:12:15]:
Yeah. So, I’ll read an excerpt from your piece, and it’s actually the quote that I gave you because it really kinda sums up this conversation. And that is that topics like menopause, dating after divorce, empty nesting, caring for aging parents and kids, and career burnout are common topics for women in midlife. But guess what? Other than menopause, although there is the andropause version, but other than menopause, those topics, those challenges also apply to midlife men. And in in fact, midlife men can also be struggling with their identity, their purpose, weight gain, muscle loss, relational challenges, career transitions, and even mental health challenges. So the it’s not something that’s unique to women by any means.
Alice Kearney [00:13:10]:
No. No. We saw, in my, you know, just small survey, a third of men are looking to change roles. And I think, you know, the labor market is probably the toughest it’s been. You know, the last couple of years, it’s been very tough. And I think for everyone in midlife, it’s harder because we’re probably more expensive because we are more experienced and are suffering more when people are looking to change careers is actually harder. And I definitely think that’s something that men and women should be working together to try and change rather than just going, you know, on one track.
Bernie Borges [00:13:47]:
Yeah. So you also mentioned in your piece that there’s a big emergence of women’s support groups. Yeah. That are out there for, midlife men. So in your travels, have you come across, I’ll use the same phrase, support groups of any sort that are either for men or non gender specific?
Alice Kearney [00:14:12]:
I found some that are very specific to things like suicide. There are, male specific groups, but I haven’t found I haven’t found any sort of events. I’m going to a female midlife event next next week, but I have not I’ve not seen any male events in the UK. I think in America, maybe you’re a few years ahead of us. You usually, you know, usually are with these things. You know, the trends come from the US to us, but it’s definitely really, you know, really quiet in the UK as far as men are concerned. But when I did interview men, over 70% said they would be interested in a community of, you know, like minded men so that they could talk. I mean, the the proof will be in the pudding whether they actually do have those conversations, but that I think there is understanding and willingness to have other people to talk to.
Bernie Borges [00:15:14]:
Yeah. You know, I’ll share another personal anecdote here. I just booked a long weekend with 4 guys. So 5 of us, 5 men, who are planning a weekend away. And the premise, you know, we’re all in, quote, unquote, midlife. We’re all over 45, 50. I think I think we’re all over 50, and at least 2 of us are over 60 of the 5, myself being one of them. And, Alice, the premise for us to get away is just to kinda talk, you know, and just, like, open up and be honest with what’s going on in life.
Bernie Borges [00:15:50]:
You know? And so, you know, we’re willing to do that, and and I have to give credit to one individual who organized it, so it wasn’t like we all came up with this idea together. 1 individual said, hey. You know, let’s do this, and so we said, yeah. Let’s do this. And, I just think that that’s symptomatic of what we can do more often. You know? No. Yes. Idea.
Bernie Borges [00:16:13]:
Maybe I should do an event for men.
Alice Kearney [00:16:16]:
Possibly. I think yeah. I think there’s a there’s a definite feeling that came across, which surprised me a little bit that men feel that they are being silenced because how things have changed over the last 30, 40 years. Diversity, equality and inclusion is so important in workplaces now that there are a proportion of men that do feel like they’re being excluded, and they don’t feel that they have the right maybe to talk. Like, they don’t have the right to complain about anything because if they do complain, then people are like, but you’ve got it the easiest. You know? And so I think that invitation to have those conversations is necessary. Otherwise, it completely shuts those people down, and then and then it’s only gonna go one way, which is not in a good way.
Bernie Borges [00:17:13]:
Yeah. So I think you know that I I did some research recently, as well. Yeah. At the time of this recording, the research has not been published yet. It’s gonna publish around, let’s call it, early September 2024. And a little more than half, somewhere around I have to go into my memory banks here. Around 60% of the responses were women. So and there was no intent to get more women.
Bernie Borges [00:17:40]:
There was no even no intent the other way around. It was just sent out, to many, many people, over 500 people who responded, and it was about 60 ish percent, women. So, again, another data point on how there’s more activity, among women in midlife.
Alice Kearney [00:17:58]:
Yeah. I I think I don’t think 60% is probably, I would say, quite low. I spoke to someone who, a couple of years ago, ran a midlife hub, like, where you could go to find midlife experts. And she was saying it was nearly 80% with women, not visiting, but of the experts. So I don’t think, yeah, I don’t think that’s, a bad a bad, you know, measure.
Bernie Borges [00:18:26]:
Here’s a question, Alice. Do you think that the word midlife has a perception in the world that it is something that is more related to women than men?
Alice Kearney [00:18:40]:
I think, possibly, it has been championed more by women. But the negative connotations of midlife come from midlife crisis and that term. And I think that term was definitely more attached to men than women. And it definitely had lots of negative connotations. So I think for men, when they talk think about midlife, they think crisis, they think Ferraris, they think divorce, which is not, you know, it’s not necessarily a positive way to look at things. Whereas I think both you and I are looking at it, know that you can change your life, you know, positively. It doesn’t have to be a crisis. You know, it’s a it can be a good transition.
Alice Kearney [00:19:32]:
It might be difficult, but it could, you know, it can really open things up so you have a much better life. You know, you’re you’re probably more financially stable, so you’ve got choices that you probably didn’t have before.
Bernie Borges [00:19:46]:
You weren’t financially stable unless you, did some things in your midlife crisis to set that back, which does happen. I’m not really being flippant. I mean, that does happen. There were some people, and I think men’s probably more so than women, that might, do some things that might set them back, both financially as well as emotionally. What do you think we can do? I mean, how how do we get more men on board? And, you know, it’s really kind of an interesting topic for me, Alice, because I haven’t really been intent on wanting to get more men on board. Right. But you’ve you’ve really raised my antennas on this. You’ve really raised my awareness.
Bernie Borges [00:20:25]:
Like, what what can we do to get more men just to care about midlife challenges?
Alice Kearney [00:20:30]:
I think it’s I think it’s about listening and being inclusive and having those if you don’t have anywhere for those people to go, then they’re gonna feel shut out, and they’re not gonna be involved, and they’re not gonna care, and they’re not gonna know what is possible. So for me, you know, because I was thinking when I looked at all the stats about women, you know, maybe I should pivot towards more women. But I don’t, I don’t think that’s the right option. And when I think when men feel heard, they are interested. It just might take longer to get them over the line. So, I mean, yeah, my advice to you is just carry on doing what you’re doing because it’s useful for for for men. And I, you know, I I feel like I’m gonna do the same.
Bernie Borges [00:21:19]:
Yeah. No. I agree. I agree. And I fully intend to carry on doing what I’m doing, and I’m glad that you’re you’re you intend to do the same, Alice. And, I I just think that, to your point, I think as men become more aware of both the challenges as well as the ways to overcome those challenges, then they can become more in tune with how to deal with those challenges. And and, again, I think what you and I sort of bring to the party, if you will, globally, is you’ve got your, you know, your 3 pillars. I’ve got my 5 pillars.
Bernie Borges [00:21:56]:
So what we’re doing, uniquely, is we’re kinda breaking it down saying, you know, think about, in your case, these 3 pillars, in my case, these 5 pillars, right, so that you can have sort of a structured, methodical way of looking at the challenges that you face in midlife and how to deal with them so that you can have a more thriving, happy, and fulfilling midlife.
Alice Kearney [00:22:22]:
Yeah. And I think sometimes, the way that I find men engage with me is something that’s very concrete. So if I talk to them about their finance, you know, this is let’s talk about your finances. Let’s talk about, you know, are you prepared in your pension? Have you got a pension that’s gonna allow you to retire and live the life you want? For them, that’s an easier entry entry point than maybe talking about fulfillment and talking about those words just because I think it sometimes scares them because it’s it comes across as more emotional, possibly, but they are so interconnected. But I think sometimes it’s attracting men through concrete, actions that they can take.
Bernie Borges [00:23:07]:
So yes, and I like the expression yes, and. So I agree with you. And the and part is that what I would add to that, Alice, is so there’s finances, then there’s also purpose. Because as you know, as we age and we go through these different these stages in our life, we sometimes wake up and wonder, what’s my purpose now at this point in my life? And so starting conversations around that, because sometimes people are are unwilling to ask that question of themselves, which is why I’m so big on self awareness. Because if you’re if someone’s unwilling to ask that question, then they’re sweeping it under the rug. You know, they’re burying it. But if you bring it up and you just ask the question, so what’s your purpose? It forces someone to at least think about it. They may or may not choose to answer, but at least they’re going to think about it and probably beyond the conversation that you start with them.
Alice Kearney [00:24:10]:
Yeah. No. A 100% agree. And purpose, you know, has been proven to help your longevity. It gives you a legacy. You know, it’s it’s it’s fundamental. You know, I totally agree. It’s fundamental to all of those things.
Bernie Borges [00:24:27]:
Well, Alice, as we wrap up here, do you have any kind of a closing thought you wanna share on this particular topic about, men in midlife crisis or not?
Alice Kearney [00:24:39]:
I think I just hope that men start to think about their later life, how they can have a happier and more fulfilled midlife, which will have a great benefit as they get older. And that there are many places they can have those conversations. You know, start with your podcast if they wanna do something that you know, just to understand what is available.
Bernie Borges [00:25:07]:
Yeah. Find resources. Like you said, a podcast like the Midlife Fulfill podcast. There’s newsletters like yours. There’s websites. There’s books on on these topics. So find resources. And also get together with other other guys.
Bernie Borges [00:25:22]:
Right? If we’re specifically addressing men, get together with other guys, like I mentioned that I’m doing with 4 other guys. And we’re just gonna spend 4 days just talking. And I anticipate it’s gonna be all over the board. You know? Like, topics are gonna be all over the board. So, Alice, how can someone connect with you and just kinda get into your world?
Alice Kearney [00:25:42]:
So they can go to my website, future proof, my life, or they can connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m very active on LinkedIn. I do have, other social media, but I would say that’s the best. Yeah. I think those and I’ve got a Substack as well where my newsletter is.
Bernie Borges [00:26:00]:
Right. And on your website, you have an assessment. Right?
Alice Kearney [00:26:03]:
Yes. I have an assessment. So you can put in your details and see how you score, in those, three areas, and then I will send you a prioritized list of how you can close that gap if there’s anything that is is not a 100%.
Bernie Borges [00:26:22]:
Wonderful. Well, my listener knows, Alice, that all that will be linked up in the show notes. So we’ll make that easy for people to, to connect with you and learn more about you. I just wanna thank you, Alice, for joining me on this episode of the Midlife Fulfill podcast, the maximum episode discussing this topic. It’s the first time I’ve actually covered this topic of men in midlife, midlife crisis, or maybe not. So thank you so much, Alice, for joining me today.
Alice Kearney [00:26:49]:
Thank you for having me.
