Bernie Borges [00:00:01]:
Donna Wallace, welcome to the Midlife Fulfill podcast, a vulnerable conversations episode.
Donna Wallace [00:00:07]:
Thanks so much, Bernie. I’m thrilled to be here with you.
Bernie Borges [00:00:10]:
Well, I’m thrilled to have you here for this conversation. Donna, first of all, you are one day ahead of me. Here I am on a Thursday evening in Florida, and it’s Friday morning for you down under. Mhmm. So I always get a little chuckle out of that just because of the, the whole, you know, time difference and you’re literally in tomorrow. But I I’ve been looking forward to our conversation because you have an approach to life and you have an approach to helping people, serving people through your business that is very soul deep. In fact, Donna, you call it Soulradiance. So I wanna read something you have on your website, and then I’m gonna invite you to have a deep conversation, a vulnerable conversation with me about it.
Bernie Borges [00:01:00]:
You say on your website that Soul Radiance is a deep dive healing course to unleash the light of your soul and have you feel happy, loved up, lit up, and free, and awaken your soul. So I wanna know, how did you get there? How did you get to that to this point where you are serving others around this?
Donna Wallace [00:01:25]:
That is such a big question, Bernie. You know, this is a midlife podcast. I’m in my midlife, and that would tell well, that would entail me telling you, like, my whole life story. But I can give you a short sort of short version if
Bernie Borges [00:01:39]:
you’d like. Just wanna provide context for this whole conversation. Absolutely.
Donna Wallace [00:01:45]:
Yep. For sure. So I was not I I did not grow up in a spiritual or religious household, and it was when I was a teenager I was introduced to Reiki for the the first time. I was upset and a family friend said Donna come over here if you’d like. I place my hands on your on your shoulders and give you reiki, which I didn’t even know what that was at that point in time. But when she did, it felt like this beautiful warm energy moving into my body and I felt calm immediately and I was so curious about what that was. A real sense of, like, comfort and calm, like, peace, the energy of peace and curiosity opened up inside of me from that, and I needed to know more. And that really sent me on a trajectory of, like, self discovery and also opening up the realms to, like, what else is possible and, of course, the healing arts.
Donna Wallace [00:02:42]:
But that evolved over decades, Bernie.
Bernie Borges [00:02:45]:
Sure.
Donna Wallace [00:02:45]:
Sure. Decades. And I, so I studied that. I became a Reiki practitioner, and I did I studied so many different modalities over my life. And I I had another job for most of that time or for, like, at least 2 decades over that time, And I always was doing my healing work on the side as a side not a side hustle, but as a hobby, as something that I felt was, like, really meaningful and fulfilling, and I absolutely love doing that for and people got beautiful results from it as well. But I never quite could figure out how to turn that passion into, like, a viable career financially from a financial perspective with being able to support my family. And so I had my son who’s now 12, and then, I had my daughter. And when my daughter was born, so she’s nearly 9, when my daughter was born, I had this real like, this almost this light bulb moment of, if I don’t pursue this now, I’m never going to do it.
Donna Wallace [00:03:50]:
And coupled with a feeling, Bernie, of, I feel like my daughter is asking me to be all that I can possibly be. So, you know, I wanted my kids to grow up knowing that they can fulfill their dreams, like absolutely knowing it without a shadow of a doubt in their mind. Like I didn’t want to just be the mother that said to them you can do or be anything that you want to. I wanted them to see that this is normal and this is natural and you can pursue your dreams and you can have a life that you where you’re fulfilled and happy in your work, in your career, or even let’s call it a vocation, and that that’s just their normal that’s their baseline. And so, interestingly, I started my business when I was completely sleep deprived with my daughter, and I ended up going back to my corporate job for a little while after she was born, and then my business took off. I was working at night and also not sleeping at night with her. And it was I was really sleep deprived, but I was also deeply fulfilled, Bernie. And
Bernie Borges [00:04:57]:
Okay. So part of your story is fairly common theme here on the Midlife Fulfill podcast, and that’s, oftentimes hearing a story of someone sort of waking up one day, whether it’s literally one day or over some period of time, and having this awakening, this self awareness that, you know, you really wanna pursue something. And whether it’s I have to do it now or I’ll never do it, as you said, or it’s just time. The the time is now. Mhmm. Part of what I heard you say is that having your second child, your daughter specifically, was really motivating. And you even said that it’s as if she was calling you to do it. So that’s very inspiring.
Bernie Borges [00:05:41]:
And again, it’s it’s a similar theme that we discuss here on the Midlife of Full podcast. Where I wanna go in our conversation is I wanna unpack the meaning of healing. When you work with someone
Donna Wallace [00:05:56]:
Right.
Bernie Borges [00:05:57]:
What does healing mean?
Donna Wallace [00:06:00]:
Thank you for asking that question, Bernie, because I don’t have a better word for it, and so I use the word healing. To me, healing is a process where we start to resolve trauma that people have gone through. We start to resolve issues that you’ve experienced in the past that have led you to a place where you’re not your fullest, most vibrant, most happiest, most calmest, you know, best version of yourself, basically. So in my mind, we have everything inside of us that we need already. You’re not really you’re not broken and you’re not, you know, incomplete. Actually, you’re complete. There’s everything that you need inside of you. Ultimately, you are a radiant being of light, I believe, or an expression of the divine expression of love.
Donna Wallace [00:06:54]:
You have everything inside of you that you already need, and your fullest version of you exists inside of you. We feel like what happens is over the course of our lives we experience different things and we start to shut down parts of ourselves or we start to, you know, not believe that everything is possible or available to us. So we start to become a little bit less optimistic and a little bit more pessimistic really. And so to me healing is resolving some of the things that we’ve experienced and we’ve gone through so we can open up your natural state of radiance, your natural state of love, and not be, like, so affected by the things that you’ve experienced in the past or and it can be it can be both that. It can be past trauma issues that you’ve experienced. It could be birth family trauma that you’ve kind of inherited somehow, but it also can be, like, the exposure to our culture, to to marketing. It can be, you know, the environments that we grow up in or the societies that we grow up into that, you know, actually don’t feel in alignment with us. So to me, healing is kinda getting rid of everything that’s in the way of you being your beautiful radiant self that you already are.
Donna Wallace [00:08:12]:
It’s just sort of covered on top of you know, there’s some layers on top. So it’s a process of becoming who you are, but it’s not like having to go anywhere or get to a place. It’s really an internal unlayered, if you know what I mean. Mhmm.
Bernie Borges [00:08:27]:
Okay. You used the word divine earlier in in your explanation. And I wanna disclose something to our listener, Donna, and that is you and I had a conversation about a week ago, give or take, maybe 2 weeks, at least to lose track of time, to kinda get to know each other a little bit because we had not, met before. And I shared with you, kind of, my perspective. You said also in your introduction that you didn’t grow up in a religious home. And I I didn’t either. But in my recent decades, speaking of decades, I have adopted, as you know, a faith that is Bible based. And I I wanna ask you, if someone comes to you and wants to explore working with you, or they know they wanna work with you, and they read to you this one scripture that I found that I thought could be relevant for our conversation.
Bernie Borges [00:09:19]:
I’m gonna read it. It’s from the book of Philippians, which is in the New Testament. It’s chapter 4 verse 6, and it says, do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. Mhmm. So if I came to you saying, I I like what I see on your website, but I I I I’m I’m a bible believing person of faith. How does that integrate with how you help people?
Donna Wallace [00:09:51]:
To me, it is a different it’s a it’s a framework, and that framework is your connection with God or it’s your connection with source. And I believe that we can all exist with different, you know, frameworks if you like and still have a connection with God or still have a connection with source. So do I think that that means that if you’re religious you can’t come and work with me? No. I don’t think that at all. I think that we are all ultimately wanting the same thing.
Bernie Borges [00:10:23]:
Well, yeah. So we all want the same thing. How do you characterize what it is that we all want?
Donna Wallace [00:10:29]:
We all want I believe we all want to experience what pure love is. What true unconditional love is. I think ultimately, that’s what we all really want. I think you could frame that in other ways. Maybe you could say we all want to experience heaven on earth or we all want to experience what bliss is. Like, what but I think ultimately what it comes down to is love. We all want to experience what it feels like to be unconditionally loved, and we also want to experience ourselves as beings who are loving unconditionally.
Bernie Borges [00:11:04]:
I would agree with that. And those of us that are bible believing people of faith know that really God is love. I mean, if you were to sum up God in one word, it’s it’s love. So God loves everyone and invites everyone to invite to invites everyone to love him. I also know because I’ve come across people in my travels who can experience the love of God, but still feel a void. Still feel like they’re they’re struggling with whether it’s human love, whatever it may be. So, maybe that’s a scenario where you, with your skills and your background, provide healing for people regardless of whether they’re someone like me, a Bible believing person of faith, or an atheist, or whatever their framework is or isn’t. It I get the the impression from this conversation, as well as our previous conversation, that you have a framework that is agnostic to religious convictions and doctrine and helps people in their, quote, unquote, healing through the process that you take them through.
Donna Wallace [00:12:19]:
Right. Yes. Yes. You’re absolutely right, Bernie. To me, I feel like you can you can be all of you. You you can come to me and you can be all of you. If you are someone who believes in the bible, I love and respect and honor that. You can come to me and be however you are and bring your beliefs in and then also still receive healing.
Donna Wallace [00:12:44]:
And, actually, I think what that healing does is open up that connection with with your faith more.
Bernie Borges [00:12:52]:
Yeah. You know, back to what I was saying a moment ago, I’m gonna reframe what I said because what I’ve encountered from a few people is this notion of, so we’re bible believing people of faith. I know that God loves me, but what I’ve heard people say is I don’t deserve for God to love me. That’s a pretty
Donna Wallace [00:13:12]:
That’s such a huge thing, Bernie. Isn’t it? I mean, I’ve I would say that most people that come to me would have a version of that, which is that they don’t feel like they’re worthy of love or they are unlovable to some degree. And, I’ve got goosebumps as you talk about that and all the feels, because to me that is a that is an expression of our lack of self esteem. Like, a feeling of whether you’re deserving all of love and how lovable you feel, that is that is not something that is inherent. Like, that is not something that’s fixed within you. That’s something that happened to you over time that can be resolved. So what if you can have, like, look at it like that, like it’s not fixed, it’s not actually a done deal, and it’s just something that is sitting within you that’s kind of blocking that flow of love? Then what if that can be healed and resolved? That means that you open up the doors to experiencing the greatest love of your life, doesn’t it?
Bernie Borges [00:14:24]:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. How I mean, I’m sure there’s no one size fits all, but how does that even happen with an individual? Again, there’s no one size fits all, so I know that. But as you said, when I gave that example, that’s a very deep it’s a very difficult thing that someone might experience. Mhmm. So I’m sure it’s not a single conversation that provides the quote unquote healing. Right? Mhmm.
Bernie Borges [00:14:55]:
So how how do you approach that when what whatever the circumstances, I gave you that circumstance, whatever the circumstances, how do you approach each individual, which is always gonna be unique. Right? It’s always gonna be a unique situation, but nonetheless, is gonna be very I’ll use the word, serious for that individual.
Donna Wallace [00:15:16]:
Right. Bernie, you’re so right. It is extremely unique for each person that even though we’re talking about a common theme that maybe many, many, many of us humans are experiencing or have experienced. Like, it is so deeply unique and personal that how do I do it? I listen. Like, I listen so deeply to the people that come to me that I hear their words and then I also hear their unspoken words as well. And I’ve had enough experience working with thousands of people over the years that I can start to piece together the put together the pieces of the puzzle and start to help people unravel, like, where that stemmed from. So I listen, and I am deeply connected and present with the people who come to me. It’s it’s a profound experience, Bernie.
Bernie Borges [00:16:07]:
You said something profound that I wanna come back to. That you listen, but you also listen for the unspoken, I don’t know, word or unspoken something. Can you unpack that a little bit?
Donna Wallace [00:16:20]:
This is where, to me, when you are deeply present and listening to someone well, this is what happens for me, Bernie. I can feel and I can sense the gaps in between their words. And so sometimes people will say things and I absolutely get it and acknowledge it. And then I can also feel, like, what’s behind that or what’s sitting in between their words. And it’s often in that space that isn’t verbally articulated, so not maybe even consciously thought about that that’s where magic often happens. It’s almost in that space that you don’t know that you don’t know, the things that you can’t see for yourself. And that’s why it’s so powerful having someone who can really deeply be present and listen to you, because there’s insights that sit in the unspoken word and and feeling space.
Bernie Borges [00:17:20]:
How would you frame up my 5 pillars? I say my 5 pillars as if I own them, but I I talk about the 5 pillars as the five areas, key areas of life that we should focus on. Right? And that’s health, fitness, career, relationships, and legacy. So when you’re working with someone, you’re listening, you’re you’re providing your service to them, whether it’s conscious or unconscious, do you sort of look at their life and work with them in in the context it may not be the same words as the 5 pillars that I’m describing, but do you sort of look at it through that lens or or not?
Donna Wallace [00:18:02]:
What what how I would articulate that, Bernie, is that people come to me in their specific areas of their life that are not in and and not the way that they want them. So maybe it’s health or maybe it’s legacy. I would call that purpose and fulfillment. Maybe it’s, relationships as well. Like, could definitely people come to me when their work isn’t, you know, in alignment with them. For me, the way I see that is actually what is underpinning all of that. What’s the thing that would actually move the needle as an internal experience that means that you can go out and get the things that you want? Like, you can go out and create the life that you want in all of those 5 pillars. So for me it’s the foundation of what sits underneath that.
Donna Wallace [00:18:48]:
What, you know, if someone says that they don’t feel deserving or worthy of love, do they also not feel deserving or worthy of having a job that is fulfilling and also, you know, fills their bank accounts? Like, how else does that pervade that person’s life? And so I would see that the underpinning foundation of that inner relationship, that’s that the experience of self then, you know, then kind of has this ripple effect into all those pillars that you’re talking about, Bernie.
Bernie Borges [00:19:22]:
Okay. I’m gonna get off topic for just a moment here, but did I just hear some kangaroos in the background? I heard something.
Donna Wallace [00:19:33]:
You probably heard some birds. I have a lot of birds where I live, and, no kangaroos right here, but sometimes koalas. There are kangaroos up the road at dusk.
Bernie Borges [00:19:45]:
Yeah. I I I’ve actually seen some videos on, Instagram of people that have kangaroos in Australia, of course, coming right up to their front door. So, I have a feeling they’re like deer. I live in Florida. Deer there’s as many deer as there are people in Florida. But I digress. We’ll come back. We’ll get back.
Bernie Borges [00:20:02]:
Sorry for the tangent. What I what as I was listening to your last response, Donna, I was wondering the following, and that is in the thousands of people that you’ve encountered and worked with, what are you seeing among different age categories as it relates to people’s need for your service to work with you?
Donna Wallace [00:20:25]:
I see that as people get towards midlife or moving into that phase, and I heard you talking about that you think that midlife starts in your mid thirties. I agree with that. I think as people are moving towards a milestone of the age of 40, they’re already starting to think about what do they want the next half of their life to be. So I feel that this is a really potent time in people’s lives because there’s often big transitions. People are wanting change or wanting to do something different or want life to look a little bit different than what it has for the first 40 years of their life. And so I think that there’s a great need for this kind of work at this stage because how do you create something different in your life when you feel the same way? Like, how what are you gonna do differently? You can take some different actions, but can you without that internal work? I’m not sure. Because often you’ll end up, like, moving back into your old ways, moving back into what’s familiar. In your experience working with people, do you find that people are
Bernie Borges [00:21:26]:
searching for do you find that people are searching for themselves or searching for something higher? Whether you wanna use the word divine, spiritual, God, people use the word universe all the time. Right? Are people searching to find themselves or are they looking to find something bigger?
Donna Wallace [00:21:54]:
Do you know I think they’re looking for both, but what they say they’re looking for is they just wanna feel happier. Or they want a they want their work to be better. Like, they want to be doing work that’s different, or that they wanna find a loving relationship and find themselves in the same kind of patterns in relationships that are not healthy for them. So people come to me saying, like, the specific things in their life that they want that is changed, and what do they get out of that? They get a deeper sense of connection or understanding of their self, but they also get a connection with what I call the divine you call God. So underpinning all of that is that’s actually what they get. They get both. They get the, you know, feeling happy within themselves, and they get, you know, they figure out how to be different in relationships and all of those things. They get the things that they come for, but they also get so much more.
Donna Wallace [00:22:51]:
And isn’t your question unique expression as individuals, but ultimately, we are an expression of the divine. We’re ultimately an expression of God.
Bernie Borges [00:23:03]:
Well, I couldn’t have said that better. I couldn’t have said that any better. That that you actually took the words right out of my mouth, Donna. That’s exactly what I I was gonna say. We were created in God’s image. It’s written in the Bible that way. So whether you believe that or not, that’s the way it’s written. And so, I agree.
Bernie Borges [00:23:21]:
I agree. I’m also wondering if you have ever discussed the distinction between happiness and fulfillment, because you’ve said a few times that people ultimately want to be happy, And and I’m one that actually challenges that a little bit. Not that people wanna be happy. I don’t challenge that. But my challenge is just knowing what happiness is because happiness is an emotion. And we can be happy for some period of time and then become unhappy. Not necessarily permanently, but we can just be a yo yo up and down, up and up and down with happiness. Whereas fulfillment is achieving something, and we can have many, many achievements in life that give us that sense of fulfillment.
Bernie Borges [00:24:04]:
And what I say, Donna, is that fulfillment is immutable. If I achieve something and I have fulfillment from that, it’s immutable. It’s permanent. You can’t take it away from me. Do you do you discuss that distinction with with people?
Donna Wallace [00:24:17]:
I have a slightly different take on that, Bernie. I never used to speak about happiness, and I used to speak about joy because I felt like joy is something that is something that can stay with you, like a deep a deep inner joy that can stay with you. But now I talk a lot more about happiness because I believe we can actually increase our baseline level of happiness in our day to day life. And so, yes, it’s an emotion that we will come and all go, but also we can have, like, overall more happiness in our life. And so that’s something that really I’ve only uncovered for myself over the last year or so, to be honest, maybe 2. Fulfillment to me is too I think you can get fulfillment in 2 ways. I think that you can experience it as an energy, as in an emotion, and I think that you can start to develop fulfillment before you’ve actually done the thing that you want to do. I also believe that you can get fulfillment from doing the things that you want to as well.
Donna Wallace [00:25:20]:
So and, yes, that level of fulfillment once you get it, it stays with you. Absolutely. So I’ve I’ve had both, Bernie. I’ve had I’ve changed my life. I’ve made you know, I’ve created this beautiful business where I feel like I’m making a contribution to people, and I’ve got a deep level of fulfillment from that. Absolutely. I also feel that when you don’t have something in your life yet and you want to experience something, you can start to tap into what fulfillment feels like before it actually arrives.
Bernie Borges [00:25:54]:
Okay. Okay. So, that’s that’s fair. That’s fair. Let me give you my explanation of how I look at fulfillment.
Donna Wallace [00:26:03]:
I love these conversations, Bernie, with you. I love our healthy discussions.
Bernie Borges [00:26:11]:
I also believe that there’s 2 types of fulfillment. 1 is something that, you achieve. So speaking in the first person, it’s if I achieve something, then that gives me fulfillment. This podcast is an example of this, of fulfillment. By recording and publishing this podcast and having wonderful conversations with beautiful people like you that bring something meaningful and insightful to whoever is listening, that’s fulfilling for me. But I I’m creating that achievement, therefore, I’m creating that fulfillment very intentionally.
Donna Wallace [00:26:45]:
Absolutely.
Bernie Borges [00:26:46]:
And that’s very fulfilling. The other type of fulfillment is fulfillment that’s bestowed upon me. I didn’t create it. It’s bestowed upon me and I accept it and it’s very fulfilling. A great example that is very fulfilling for me is both of my kids are married. My daughter is married to a guy named James, awesome guy. My son is married to a woman, Nicole, terrific lady. Their marriages, the families that they’re building are beautiful.
Bernie Borges [00:27:16]:
We love them. You know, it’s so fulfilling to see my kids married, having wonderful lives, but though those they chose their spouse. Right? I had zero involvement in that. Trust me. 0. But it was bestowed upon me, and that’s a fulfillment that, again, it’s immutable. But in that example, it’s bestowed upon me. So you see the the difference? One is I created it because I wanted to.
Bernie Borges [00:27:44]:
It’s an achievement. It’s it’s intentional. The other is it’s been bestowed upon me.
Donna Wallace [00:27:51]:
Yeah. Interestingly, I don’t know if I would call that fulfillment, that second example, and I absolutely get it for you. And I, you know, not invalidating what you’re saying because that’s so beautiful, and I I love that you’ve got that and that you get to share in their joy and, you know, the creation of your the building of your family and everything. I’m just not sure if I would have described that as fulfillment for myself. I would call that, like, pride and love and contentment perhaps and deep joy, but I’m not sure if that if I would have described that as fulfillment, but I love considering it like that and open to it.
Bernie Borges [00:28:34]:
Yeah. I think the reason that I I personally view it as fulfillment is because it is something that you nobody can take away from me. It is very deep. It’s so level deep. It is so gratifying to me And it it it is an achievement even though I didn’t achieve it myself, because like I said, I didn’t select their spouses. But nonetheless, it’s something that is very, very deeply gratifying to me and and gives me a tremendous sense of fulfillment. Because I had some contribution to it by being their father and, of course, my wife is their mother. Right? So, you know, together, we had some contribution in the way that they were raised and con some contribution into the the adults that they’ve become.
Bernie Borges [00:29:25]:
And so it is fulfilling to see them just living, to your point, joyful lives. I have I’m it’s not like I’m not gonna use the word joy. I think it’s a wonderful word that can be part of what we’re discussing here, for sure. But for me, it is a sense of fulfillment. Is it joyful as well? Absolutely. And I’m not saying that it’s it’s one and not the other. It’s not at all what I’m saying. I’m just saying that it is fulfilling and absolutely there’s joy in it.
Donna Wallace [00:29:53]:
I love that, Bernie. Do you feel like fulfillment is something that, you know, as the word would suggest, fills you up?
Bernie Borges [00:30:01]:
Yes. Yes. Not always the same though. Not always the same. Fulfillment can be a small level of fulfillment or it could be gigantic. It all depends. I would think that the work that you’re doing is gigantic fulfillment for you. It is.
Bernie Borges [00:30:21]:
Yeah. You might, plant something in the backyard, you know, a certain vegetable. Can
Donna Wallace [00:30:28]:
you have a look in my backyard? Because we have just been clearing it out yesterday for replanting.
Bernie Borges [00:30:35]:
I’m being totally spontaneous. So if you plant something in your backyard and it grows and it grows nicely, that’s fulfilling. Is that same fulfillment level is that the same fulfillment level as what you’re doing in your business and helping people? I’m not gonna answer that for you, but I’m just saying, you know, you can answer that. Right? Like, there’s different levels of fulfillment is all I’m saying.
Donna Wallace [00:30:58]:
I agree. And I also think, Bernie, that we are wired to have to find fulfillment in different ways, and that is tapping into our natural strengths and gifts and how we’re meant to contribute in the world. So I believe, like, that I’m meant to be doing what I’m doing, and the reason why it feels so good to me, it feels so I feel like, you know, the divine or God has, like is really intelligent because they’ve wired me in a way that makes it feel so good for me to be doing this work in the world that I will keep doing it. And so I feel like we’re wired to have our gifts and our talents expressed in a certain way, and we the the benefit that we get is fulfillment from that. And so it’s just this beautiful, intelligent, divine orchestration or, you know, implementation in our systems to wire us in a particular way to give us that level of fulfillment when we’re on purpose and we’re doing the work that we’re meant to be doing in the world.
Bernie Borges [00:32:04]:
Goodness. I think that’s a great place to to wrap the conversation, Donna. I think that’s just beautifully and well said. Thank you so much for joining me today. Before we go, please share with the listener someone who wants to connect with you and just get into your world. How can they find you and connect with you?
Donna Wallace [00:32:24]:
Thanks, Bernie. You can find me on my website, which is donnawallace.com.au, or you can find me on Instagram, which is donnawallace Heeler, and wallace is spelled w a l l a c e. Because I know you can spell that differently. Donnawallace.com.auordonnawallacehealer. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast, Bernie. I just I’ve loved our conversations and the openness and respect that we can have different frameworks and different beliefs, but yet be on the same page.
Bernie Borges [00:32:57]:
Absolutely. Well, thank you, Don. I really appreciate you joining me for this conversation, and, I look forward to staying in touch and, learning more about your continued journey.
Donna Wallace [00:33:08]:
Thanks, Bernie.
